Debates of April 23rd, 2002

Pensions

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, year after year the firefighters come here and they ask for changes in their pension accrual rate, and year after year all members of parliament agree with them, including members on the government side.

Yet year after year they go away empty-handed.

I want to ask the Minister of Finance, who is running the show here? If we all agree, how come it cannot happen? Will he make a commitment today that they will never go away empty-handed again?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted that the hon. member has asked me the question because it gives me the opportunity to basically say that the leadership on this issue has been taken by the members of the Liberal caucus. They have met with the firefighters. They have met with the Department of Finance. They have taken leadership in designing the kinds of solutions that are going to be made available.

These are things that have to be discussed with other agencies and other levels of government, but the fact is that it is the leadership of this Liberal caucus that has brought this item to the fore and they are the supporters of the firefighters in this country.

[The Speaker]

I would remind all hon. members that the Chair has to be able to hear the questions and the answers and there seems to be a lot of noise. One would think it was Wednesday and it is not.

The hon. member for Cumberland--Colchester has the floor. We will have a little order, please.

National Defence

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister of defence. We are very pleased that General Dumais is now moved up from observer status to co-chair of the American board of inquiry, but the fact remains that we have a U.S. inquiry that will not hear testimony from Canadians and we have a Canadian inquiry that will not hear testimony from Americans.

Why did the minister never ask for a joint inquiry that would hear from all participants at once?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is jumping to conclusions as to who will hear what.

Both boards are charged under legislation and rules and regulations of the forces of both countries. Therefore, it will be carried out in accordance with those mandates. They will find out all of the facts. They will find out what is needed to know, what happened in this case and what we can do to reduce the risks to our troops.

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yes, we need to know those answers, but the fact remains today that Americans knew of the training action in Afghanistan, Americans approved of the training action in Afghanistan, Americans were the ones that dropped the bomb and only the Americans can answer the questions that we want answered.

Again, will the minister ask the Americans to allow the pilot and the supervisor to testify at the Canadian inquiry?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, there will be totally shared information between the American inquiry, of which a Canadian will be the co-chair, and the Canadian inquiry. Everything will be known by both boards.

Why does the hon. member not let the members of the boards get on with their work. Instead of trying to micromanage and speculate on what they might do, we should let them get on with their work. They are very competent people.

Firearms Registration

[Garry Breitkreuz, Canadian Alliance, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, back in 1995 the justice minister claimed that registering guns was just like registering cars.

If that is true, why is the justice minister now issuing millions of firearms registration certificates without the owners' names on them?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I said many times in the House of Commons, the registration process was put in place to make sure that Canadian society received better protection with regard to the use of firearms. I stand for that principle and I guess the country as a whole stands for that principle.

As we have said, the registration, licensing and mechanisms are working quite well. We are proud of it as a government.

[Garry Breitkreuz, Canadian Alliance, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think he heard the question. He has not answered it.

The provinces have registered 18.1 million vehicles in Canada, each one with the owner's name on it. The justice department has spent $700 million to register only 3.3 million guns without the owners' names.

How can the provinces get it so right and the justice minister and the federal government get it so wrong?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we are basically talking about a question of principle here. We do believe that the policy that is in place will offer better protection for Canadian society. It is a choice, as well, that we have made as a society.

As we said, the registration and the licensing process is working well. Not long ago we talked about the question of outsourcing in order to keep offering our Canadian population very good services on that side.

Kyoto Protocol

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, various lobbies are pushing the issue of the supposedly astronomical costs of the Kyoto protocol in order to delay ratification. The David Suzuki Foundation, however, maintains that meeting the Kyoto objectives would have important economic benefits for Canada, and it has the figures to prove it.

Will the Minister of the Environment admit that any delay in ratifying the Kyoto protocol would not only have economic costs, but also social ones, especially in connection with health and climate, and that it would also send a terrible message to future generations?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, what the hon. member is referring to as a delay is the time needed to consult with the provinces and territories, the affected industry, and Canadians.

Of course, there may be a certain cost associated with consultations, but if they are to count, to be effective, we must at least make the effort.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the difference between Quebec and the federal government is that Quebec is aware of the problem and is asking that Kyoto be ratified. The federal government is clueless and takes its orders from the head office in Washington.

Will the Minister of the Environment admit that any delay in ratifying Kyoto is tantamount to making future generations pay for our lack of courage, and that it will cost a great deal more if we do not face up to our responsibilities now?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the Kyoto protocol has been an unexpected success on one front, and that is in getting the Bloc Quebecois to abandon the principle of consultation with the provinces. It is amazing that such a party does not wish there to be effective consultations with the provinces and territories. This is an unbelievable conversion.

Government Contracts

[John Williams, Canadian Alliance, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we know that Eric Maldoff, a major contributor to the Liberal Party, received a plum job as the chair of Canada Health Infoway Inc. We now know that another major contributor to the Liberal Party, Columbia Communications, has been awarded the contract as the media consultant for the same foundation. We also know, courtesy of the auditor general, that the organization was given $500 million of taxpayer money a year ago and is still not open for business.

My question is for the Minister of Health. Is Canada Health Infoway Inc. just a repository for loyal Liberals?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member well knows, Health Infoway Inc. was part of the accord established and agreed to by the Prime Minister and first ministers in relation to the renewal of our health care system.

We all agree that health information systems are key to its renewal. The first and most important task of this corporation will be provincial, territorial and federal co-operation in the development of an electronic patient record. If the hon. member were to check I think he would find that most agree that the electronic record is key to the ongoing renewal of our health care system.

[John Williams, Canadian Alliance, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that the first job of this organization is to find some Liberals who it can put on the board because, while the minister asserts that it is independent and so on, the auditor general tells us that this organization is beyond the scrutiny of parliament. It operates more like a private company than a public foundation and its focus appears to be providing a home for loyal Liberals.

Is the government using Infoway as a home for Liberal hacks because it is out of sight of parliament and therefore out of our mind too?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member should be fully aware, Health Infoways has to provide an annual report. In fact every provincial and territorial deputy minister of health is a member of the corporation.

As I have said, I think everyone who understands the importance of the renewal of the health care system realizes we must ensure that we use technology to develop instruments like the electronic patient record. Otherwise we will not be able to effectively renew our health care system and sustain it for all Canadians well into the future.

Guaranteed Income Supplement

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

The Bloc Quebecois candidate in the riding of Verdun--Saint-Henri--Saint-Paul--Pointe Saint-Charles as well as other spokespersons from this party are saying that the Government of Canada is deliberately depriving 2,700 senior citizens in this riding of their guaranteed income supplement.

Could the minister clarify these statements?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, this is completely false. My colleagues opposite are making completely inappropriate comments and seem to enjoy spreading misinformation to Quebec seniors.

Perhaps the hon. member would be interested to know that 16,000 of the 23,500 seniors who recently received our simplified form for application for the guaranteed income supplement have returned their forms and will be receiving the supplement shortly.

Our outreach continues because for us every senior who is eligible for the supplement should have access to it.

Taiwan

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Taiwan's health officials are not able to access the worldwide system of monitoring and controlling infectious diseases because Taiwan is not a member of the World Health Organization. Taiwan, however, is seeking observer status for the upcoming world health assembly in Geneva.

Why has our government not joined others in supporting Taiwan's effort in this regard?

[David Kilgour, Liberal, Secretary of State (Asia-Pacific)]

Mr. Speaker, the point the member made has been made repeatedly by many other spokespeople and no government at this point has come on side with the member on that particular point.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I think they need to do a little research.

The European parliament has unanimously passed a resolution calling for members of the EU to support Taiwan's bid to gain observer status. The United States senate has approved a bill supporting Taiwan, bill No. 2739, if they are interested.

Why would our Prime Minister be reluctant to endorse a democratic jurisdiction like Taiwan that has a concern for better health?

[David Kilgour, Liberal, Secretary of State (Asia-Pacific)]

Mr. Speaker, the member is correct in those points but he also knows that no executive branch of any government has accepted the point that the two legislative bodies have returned to.

Taiwan has done extremely well. Its economy and democracy are doing very well and we should all be very proud of it.