Debates of Feb. 11th, 2003

Iraq

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Winnipeg--Transcona.

Gasoline Prices

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, they did not just move up to Miami Beach, they moved all the way to Qatar.

I want to ask a question of the Minister of Industry. He will know that there is a great deal of concern among Canadians that they are being gouged at the pumps with the anticipation of war as a pretext for a huge increase in the price of gas.

I want to ask the Minister of Industry to please not fob this onto the provinces, but tell us what plan the federal government has to ensure that Canadians are not taken advantage of at the pumps during this time?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of factors about which the member knows that lead to increased oil prices, including exceptionally frigid weather in North America and northern Europe, the uncertain situation in the Middle East, and the situation with the oil sector in South America.

We are very watchful of anti-competitive steps on the part of the oil industry, but the regulation of retail prices is a provincial responsibility as the member well knows. If he thinks prices should be regulated, that is where to look.

Iraq

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in 1991 the present Prime Minister's position on Canadian troops in the gulf was that we should send them, but once the shooting started, Canada should bring its troops home.

He has now sent Canadian troops to work with the Americans in Qatar. There would be a contingency plan for the role those Canadians would play in the event the United States acted against Iraq outside the United Nations auspices.

What is the contingency plan? Is it the Prime Minister's plan that those Canadian troops would come home?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have troops in that part of the world at this time. We have ships, planes, and soldiers working in Afghanistan, and fighting terrorism in that part of the world.

The planning groups have been transferred to that part of the world to be closer to the action and the soldiers who are there. We felt it was important that we still be part of the planning there.

Our position is very clear. It is the same as that of the government of the day in 1991, that there shall be no war outside of the umbrella of the United Nations. That was the opposition--

[The Speaker]

The right hon. member for Calgary Centre.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister continues to avoid answers on these questions. The House can only conclude it is because there is no plan in the government; it has no sense of what it is doing.

I want to make very clear to the Prime Minister that I am not asking him to divulge the details of any discussion in cabinet, but may I ask the Prime Minister, have contingency plans for a possible war against Iraq been presented to cabinet, either during today's meeting or at any time in the last few months?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know who is speaking for the Tory Party, whether it is Mr. Mulroney or him. Mr. Mulroney said this week that we should go to war and not pay attention to the UN at all.

I think the position of this party is the same as they had in 1991, which is that if there is to be a war, it has to be done with the authority of the United Nations.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, to increase the possibility of Saddam Hussein disarming, the Canadian Alliance has recommended predeploying forces as a deterrent to Saddam Hussein.

We now know that Canada has sent officers to the U.S. command post in Qatar. We are told that four frigates and possibly a destroyer will be deployed in the gulf related to the Iraq situation, not Afghanistan. Our forces are not just wandering over there on their own and they will not be there just for exercises.

Why does the government tell Canadians one thing about Iraq and then the government gives orders on the other side?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister has pointed out, the movement to Qatar is merely a change in location for an operation that was ongoing for some time in Tampa.

As for the ships, they are committed to precisely the same mission as before; that is to say, the war against terrorism in Afghanistan. Their mission has not changed. Their enhanced role signifies Canada's determination to be a major force in the war against terrorism.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are being told by insiders that Canada's forces are being sent there for double duty and that one side of those duties involves Iraq. The government is not only playing games with Canadians, but is also playing games with our allies.

I am just asking this straightforward and simple question, are the Liberals predeploying forces to the Middle East for the Iraq situation or not?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the hon. member might identify his so-called inside source because I can tell him that his source whoever he or she may be is absolutely wrong.

These forces are there solely and uniquely for Operation Enduring Freedom, which is the war against terrorism in Afghanistan. There is absolutely no commitment to Iraq at this time. Should that ever happen, it will only occur with United Nations support following a deliberate decision by the government.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we now know that the evidence that Great Britain provided to Colin Powell for his presentation before the UN was not worth much.

Yet the Prime Minister said that he was convinced by Powell's presentation, while the French President said that the evidence was not clear: nothing that justifies a war.

Will the Prime Minister admit that serious doubt remains, that his opinion differs from that of other heads of state, and that this doubt is, in itself, enough for him to exercise some restraint with regard to our participation in a war on Iraq?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has always been very clear on this. There is complete agreement to support the UN initiative and wait for Mr. Blix to give his report on February 14. That is how things stand. We will assess the situation. We have always been clear that it is essential to see what the inspection system put in place by the Security Council finds before reaching a decision. That is the responsible, logical position in this very complex situation.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in our justice system, we are not used to sending someone to prison without having proof beyond all doubt. In Canada, in Quebec, we are innocent until proven guilty.

Is the Prime Minister not ignoring this fundamental principle, in preparing to participate in a war in which victims will be inevitable, based on questionable evidence and opinions that others do not share.

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the applicable law in this situation is resolution 1441. Resolution 1441, paragraph 4, stipulates that Saddam Hussein must cooperate fully with inspections.

Mr. Blix and American Secretary of State Colin Powell are both in agreement on this point. We need to wait until Friday to see what Mr. Blix says and not make false analogies in this regard.

Air India

[Chuck Cadman, Canadian Alliance, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday Inderjit Singh Reyat admitted to helping build the bomb that brought down Air India flight 182 in 1985 killing 329 people. For that he was sentenced to five years for manslaughter. That is about five and a half days for each life lost.

Canadian justice has hit a new low. Thousands of people around the world, the families, and the friends of the victims feel completely betrayed.

Why does the Minister of Justice continue to defend laws that allow this sort of travesty to continue?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the question of Air India is, of course, a tragedy. The prosecution of that case is made by the attorney general of British Columbia. Since the case is still before the court the House and the Canadian population will understand that we cannot comment.

[Chuck Cadman, Canadian Alliance, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in five years Reyat will be a free man. He will likely be paroled much sooner. He said that he did not know the bomb was intended to blow up a plane. He thought it was to be used on a car, a bridge or something heavy. Did he just assume that nobody would be in that car or on that bridge?

What message is the government sending to the world when in five years it will free a man convicted for participating in the terrorist deaths of 329 men, women and children?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, it is a tragedy and our hearts go out to the families of the victims of that tragedy.

The attorney general of British Columbia is responsible for the prosecution of that case. Since the case is still before the court the House and the Canadian public as a whole will understand that we cannot comment on such a case.

Foreign Affairs

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the U.S. Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, said the U.S. is prepared to act without the UN and NATO despite objections by some members, and that planning would continue without NATO if necessary.

Will the Prime Minister tell us if Canada agrees with the position of the U.S. Secretary of Defense?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I gather the hon. member is referring to the situation with Turkey, which is causing a crisis at NATO today.

My opinion and the opinion of this government is that it is the fundamental obligation of an alliance to defend its members. That is why it is very important for NATO countries to agree to defend Turkey, which is a member of our alliance.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by falling into a logic of war at NATO, and in the rest of the Iraqi issue, the federal government is undermining international institutions.

Does the Prime Minister realize that this attitude means that Canada is condoning a war without evidence and also undermining, even destroying, major international institutions?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

On the contrary Mr. Speaker, multilateral institutions such as NATO and the UN are extremely important to Canada. This crisis, this problem with Turkey, runs the risk of undermining NATO, which is a multilateral transatlantic institution of great importance to Canada.

Taxation

[Charlie Penson, Canadian Alliance, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the capital tax is a bad tax because it discourages innovation. It was introduced by the Conservatives as a temporary tax to reduce the deficit. The deficit is long gone, but the capital tax is still here. It is still here because the former minister of finance kept it going.

I ask the Prime Minister, will he direct his current Minister of Finance to axe the tax?