Debates of May 13th, 2004

Gasoline Prices

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is once more, as were all his colleagues in the last two days, quite wrong about the report he quoted and which he tabled in the House yesterday.

The report in question was a joint federal-provincial-territorial private sector report. It was an analysis of various scenarios, none of which were policy proposals, and Environment Canada did not have a member on the drafting committee.

Furthermore, as pointed out, 93% of all the spike in gasoline increase in prices goes to the oil companies. Only 7% goes for health, education and other things like that.

[Monte Solberg, Canadian Alliance, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I can see the environment minister has absolutely no respect for some of these companies that provide billions of dollars in revenues to fund that government and its overspending ways.

As late as February--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Medicine Hat has the floor. I can hear him quite well if he would continue with his question.

[Monte Solberg, Canadian Alliance, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, another attack on Alberta.

As late as February, the environment minister was musing that gas taxes should be raised because if they were not, income taxes would have to be raised and hospitals would have to be closed.

In 1992 the Prime Minister was taking--

[The Speaker]

I do not know whether there was a question there, but if the hon. Minister of Finance wants to reply to the allegations, we will hear him.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, it was indeed difficult to follow the chain of that because the hon. gentleman was interrupted a few times, including by himself.

I want to assure him that raising the fuel tax and the GST is not a part of the policy of the Government of Canada.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while consumers are paying obscene prices for gasoline, the Prime Minister declared yesterday in this House, and I quote, “—that the government will take every measure necessary to deal with this.”

The price of gas in Montreal has risen beyond $1 a litre; can the Prime Minister tell us which of those necessary measures the government has taken to curb the oil companies' appetite?

[R. John Efford, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, I made a commitment to the House on three occasions in the past several days.

We are very concerned about the price of gas. We know it is an international problem. The price of oil per barrel has escalated to above $40 U.S. We know the companies are doing an excellent job out there. They are performing very well producing oil and gas all across this country. What we have said very clearly is if there are any problems, they will be reported to the Competition Bureau and we will check them out.

We are concerned and we are checking out every possibility to deal with the issue at hand.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in Quebec, the average price of gas is 95¢ a litre. In Montreal it is even worse, at more than $1 a litre for the premium grade. Today the minister is wondering if there is a problem. Yes, there is a problem, and I think he is the problem.

Under these circumstances, how can he still wonder if there is a problem, while the Prime Minister is saying he will take action? What are they waiting for? Do they not understand that there really is a problem?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Industry and Minister responsible for the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of problems, we have a serious one with the Bloc. In fact, the Bloc does not understand quite how international oil prices are set.

The Bloc does not understand that this problem—and there is indeed a problem—is on the international level.

The Bloc does not understand that we are greatly concerned by the dizzying rise in the price of gasoline, which has economic repercussions for consumers and businesses, and that the Competition Bureau of Canada has also decided to have a close look at the petroleum sector.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as the chief organizer for the Bloc during the next election campaign, I must say that the minister is right; you have a real problem with the Bloc.

Whether the government wants to admit it or not, it has a responsibility. It has a duty to protect consumers.

I want the Minister of Industry to tell me what the government will tolerate before it intervenes to stop the escalation. Is it $1.25 a litre, $1.40 a litre, or $1.50 a litre? When will it assume its responsibilities?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Industry and Minister responsible for the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Roberval can lose his temper all he wants, but we will see how the people will vote in the next election in this country. We will see who will govern this country. It will never be the Bloc. That is impossible.

Obviously we are concerned about this issue. The Competition Bureau is currently examining the oil and gas market.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Industry must be particularly pleased to know that Ken Dryden is joining her team. That will prevent her from scoring into her own net.

The creation of a petroleum monitoring agency is considered an extremely valid measure by members on both sides of this House.

Why does the minister—why does the government—not consider establishing a petroleum monitoring agency to send the oil companies the message that the fun and games are over?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Industry and Minister responsible for the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, has the member for Roberval agreed with the government very often? Never. He likes to sit in an opposition seat and criticize. That is all he can do. He is not even capable of making any decisions. Such is the reality of the Bloc Quebecois.

The government is confident that those in charge at the Competition Bureau will look at precisely what is happening on the oil and gas market and act accordingly.

Electoral Boundaries

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is an interesting debate but neither the Liberals nor the Conservatives will ever do anything about gas prices because they are both committed to the corporately dominated market when it comes to this.

My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister and it has to do with the democratic deficit. With all the shenanigans going on in the Liberal Party and the refusal to divulge positions on important issues like health care and various other things, it is easy to be cynical, but I want to give the Deputy Prime Minister an opportunity to redeem the government.

Will she tell the House that the government will honour the decision of the Federal Court to reverse the new boundaries in Acadie—Bathurst like the Liberal candidate in that area recommends.

[Jacques Saada, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister responsible for Democratic Reform]

Mr. Speaker, I am very much aware of the arguments used in this case relating to the issue of community of interests. As I explained yesterday, this ruling is an extremely important one, and I would like to take time to examine it in detail before reaching any decision.

I think we need to acknowledge at least the integrity of the process, which consists in looking at the result of this ruling, and its real impact. It will, in fact, impact on much more than the difference between Acadie—Bathurst and the next riding. Once we have an informed answer ready, we will give it.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the historic federal court ruling is unequivocal, and acknowledges that the Electoral Boundaries Commission did not respect the community of interest for Acadie—Bathurst.

The Liberal candidate for that riding, Serge Rousselle, says that the Liberals support the court ruling. The Liberal government, however, is intimating that it will not take any action before the election, and may even file an appeal.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Can he explain to us why, every time minorities win a court case, and obtain justice at great expense to themselves, the Liberal government refuses to recognize them?

[Jacques Saada, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister responsible for Democratic Reform]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government has always been the staunchest defender of Canada's minorities.

In this particular instance, there are consequences we need to look at in greater detail. I am fully aware of the considerations relating to the community of interests. I have read the Supreme Court rulings by Justice Claire L'Heureux-Dubé on these issues and on the balance to be achieved among their demographic considerations. What I want is a bit of time to be able to properly gauge the impact of this ruling.

Gasoline Prices

[James Rajotte, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last year the industry committee studied gas prices in Canada and found that taxes are the fastest growing component of the final price of gasoline. Over the long term the price of gasoline, excluding taxes, increased by 50% while taxes themselves increased by 67%.

When will the government finally provide some relief to Canadians from high gas prices by eliminating the GST on the excise tax?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman talks about tax increases with respect to fuel. I am very pleased to tell him that the federal excise tax on fuel has not changed since 1995 and neither has the GST percentage changed since then.

[James Rajotte, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my point is their take goes up as the price goes up.

The Liberals say that we did not recommend anything. In fact the official opposition recommended a petroleum information commissioner. We recommended more resources to the Competition Bureau to investigate these cases. We recommended sharing the gas taxes with the provinces and municipalities. None of these recommendations have been acted on.

Why is the government not doing anything to alleviate any of the pain on consumers across the country? When will the Minister of Natural Resources finally step up to the pump and take some action and produce some gas relief for Canadians?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the hon. gentleman that the last time there was an international spike in the price of crude petroleum that drove prices up internationally, including in Canada, the Government of Canada offered to take action in partnership with the provinces to see what could be done by both the Government of Canada and the provinces to reduce their tax take with respect to fuel. Only one province responded to that invitation.

[Brian Pallister, Canadian Alliance, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

It has become pretty clear, Mr. Speaker, that the government has no intention of providing Canadian drivers with any relief on the exorbitant gas prices and taxes. Perhaps the lack of motivation is understandable, given the fact that every cent increase in a litre of gasoline puts $32 million into its pile of revenue. It even adds insult to injury by forcing Canadians to pay GST on the excise tax.

With this in mind, maybe the government should consider the fact that many Canadians will not be able to afford to start the car at the end of June to go to the polls. Why does the government not do the fair thing and axe the tax on the tax?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, again I would point out to the hon. gentleman that the difference he is proposing in terms of the actual consumer impact would be perhaps a penny or two. In the course of a complex pricing chain, a penny or two is hardly going to constitute the kind of relief that Canadian consumers would expect.