Debates of Sept. 26th, 2006

Softwood Lumber Products Export Charge Act, 2006

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the member to hold his passion. I am trying to answer him as best I can. When we negotiate a deal, as we did in this case, and we get more than 83% of what we asked for, that is really good negotiation.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is with considerable frustration that I join this debate concerning the bill on the softwood lumber agreement with the Americans.

Let us recall the free trade crusade initiated by the former Liberal government. It said: “We are going to win the legal battle and in the end we are going to impose free trade for softwood lumber”.

However, the Liberal government and the Conservatives, who later took their place, forgot one important thing, namely helping and supporting the forest industry and the forest sector workers, for example, with guaranteed loan programs, which we asked for for nearly 36 months before the agreement.

We listened to the entire softwood lumber industry, which told us that this sort of assistance was what was required for us to come out winners in the end and have free trade, because we were going to win the legal battle.

The governments stubbornly did not grant this assistance and today we have before us an agreement with the Americans that is very frustrating. The outcome is nothing to celebrate. There is no glory to be had from it.

Obviously the Americans won with their strategy designed to drag out the dispute as long as possible. Today we are faced with an agreement that the Quebec's industry and unions are asking us to support, because they lack the financial resources to weather the crisis, because the federal government did not do its work when it was time.

Now the agreement is before us. It will not settle the crisis once and for all, but it makes it possible to recover a significant share of the amounts paid by the Canadians to the Americans. In this regard, the Bloc Québécois has a very responsible attitude. We must not forget that, without its support for the agreement, we would be looking at an election right now. There would not be an agreement and the entire forest industry would be left to its own devices, as would the workers.

God knows we need security in this sector nowadays. We saw it again yesterday in the news on Radio-Canada: the forest industry is in a crisis throughout Canada.

The softwood lumber agreement with the Americans is only a small part of the solution to this issue. It buys us some time for a while, but other forms of action are also required.

The Bloc Québécois decided, as a responsible party, to support the agreement because we absolutely have to have some help so that our companies can keep their heads above water, continue to operate and keep job losses to a minimum. At the same time, though, an assistance plan is needed to help the industry. In this regard, the Conservative government has proved itself so far to be flagrantly irresponsible. They went to negotiate with the Americans and came back with an agreement that is not very good but which we have no other choice than to accept. On the other hand, though, they close their ears and turn a blind eye to the problems of the forest industry, which has appealed repeatedly to the governments in both Quebec City and Ottawa to do something and hopefully institute an action plan that could help it.

In my riding, whether in Saint-Pamphile or Saint-Just-de-Bretenières, we cut American wood. This agreement will ensure that these people are not affected by the imposition of duties. From their perspective, therefore, there is a significant gain. It is the same in L'Isle-Verte. Les Produits Forestiers Dubé cuts wood in a private forest and will be exempted from duties. So there is a benefit here too.

More broadly in my region, a company like Groupe G.D.S., which is a solid firm that been around for a number of years, unfortunately has severe financial problems, largely because the softwood lumber crisis was allowed to drag on for too long and there was no well structured assistance plan to help the industry.

I remember four years ago when the debate was at its height. We received requests for loan guarantees from executives at G.D.S. But the government never provided them. The result is that the company is now under the protection of the Bankruptcy Act because of this situation.

So we have to sign this agreement, and I challenge NDP and Liberal candidates everywhere in Quebec to go around the forest towns during the next election campaign claiming that we should not have signed the agreement. Actually, I would tell these candidates not to go to these towns because they may have a problem getting out in one piece.

These parties have acted irresponsibly, as has the Conservative Party if there is no assistance plan. If they confine themselves just to signing the agreement, we will not have what we need and the companies will close all the same.

The Liberals and the New Democrats will say that the agreement should not have been signed because, ultimately, the result is the same. To remedy the situation, to get back on track, we need an assistance plan, like the plan proposed by the Bloc Québécois. It contains some fifteen proposals. Let us quickly review a few of them. First, it proposes an income support program for older workers employed in the softwood lumber industry, and in all manufacturing industries, as well. In Quebec industry as a whole, people 55, 56 or 57 years old are being laid off today. They have no chance of finding other jobs and we are still waiting for the program that is going to allow them to bridge the gap until they retire.

As members of Parliament, we have pension funds. When we leave our job after a certain number of years, this provides a reasonable way to bridge the gap. We must not imagine that everyone is in that situation. People who have worked in a plant for 25 or 30 or 35 years find themselves, at the end of the line, with a maximum of 45 weeks of employment insurance, and then it is over. And yet those people have paid in for 25 or 30 or 35 years and have never claimed employment insurance benefits. We need an assistance program for older workers.

We are asking for an economic diversification program for forestry-dependent communities. The Minister of the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec has just announced an $80 million program. If we dig a bit deeper, we see that there is not one cent of new money in that figure. They have brushed off the suit and turned the jacket inside out, and handed it back to us. There is nothing new, nothing in addition. This is not what we need. We need real action with additional money to allow for economic diversification in our regions.

In this plan, we are also asking for special tax status for the 128,000 owners of private woodlots in Quebec. That is the only way to consolidate our forestry industry. We are also asking for accelerated depreciation on equipment. That is important, because the companies are going to be getting $4 billion that the Americans will be giving back to them. They will have to pay their debts and lines of credit with that money, but with the rest they must be able to buy the equipment they need to get back in the race and be able to compete with the Americans. We believe that improving the tax treatment in terms of depreciation is the kind of help they need. I think this is a useful, constructive and dynamic proposal, and the Conservative government should include it in its program.

We are also talking about financial compensation for maintaining the forest access roads. In the United States, forest access roads are maintained by the army on the pretext that this is a matter of security, so that tanks can get through. We could have a plan that would allow us to help our industry get re-established by doing this too.

We are also proposing a program to stimulate innovation and improve productivity in the forestry industry.

This is a set of measures that we need. The softwood lumber agreement signed with the Americans is going to provide for reimbursement of $4 billion. But that will have to be supported by other measures. These measures are not superfluous, they are essential so that the forestry industry can get through the crisis it is currently experiencing.

This is obvious to the people who represent rural ridings. It can be seen in industrial villages today. Yesterday, we saw reports about some villages in Abitibi. The same thing could have happened in my riding. If there is no assistance plan to help these industries get through the current forestry crisis, then in six months or a year or two years we are going to continue seeing villages close down.

I know this is diametrically opposed to the approach of the current Minister of Industry. He believes that only the marketplace counts and that the state should not intervene. The cuts announced yesterday to the Technology Partnerships Canada program bear witness to this. However, I urge all his colleagues to make the minister understand that fundamental ideological principles have no place in this issue. We must find appropriate solutions to the problems that arise. In terms of developing the forestry industry, we expect the federal government to provide an action plan that will enable our communities to rebuild, to make it through the current difficulties and to continue to contribute to the Quebec and Canadian economies as they did in the past.

It is true that the natural resources sector and the forestry sector have been impacted by the new economy and the energy sector. However, we should never forget that this basic resource makes it possible for people to live in these areas and represents the lifeblood of communities. It also provides employment to those who are not necessarily very educated but who are vital to any economy, whether that of Quebec, Canada or North America.

Given the situation, yes, the Bloc Québécois will act responsibly and vote in favour of the agreement. However, it expects the Conservative government to have the same sense of responsibility and to come up with an assistance plan for the forestry industry, a plan necessary for the recovery of the forestry industry.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend my colleague, the hon. member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup for his speech on softwood lumber. I think he was quite thorough. The Conservative member said earlier that 83% of Canada's forestry industry's money is coming back to it and the other 17% is going to the Americans. If that is how the Conservative member used to negotiate, I am glad she did not have a hand in this negotiation.

After making the Canadian and Quebec industries lose money, does the government intend to implement new strategies? We see that the Bloc Québécois has proposed alternative measures to support the industry. It is not just a matter of negotiating and pulling out. There also needs to be a new plan.

I would like the hon. member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup to say a few words about other ways that could help the Quebec and Canadian industries get new machinery and develop new procedures.

I recently read that an older worker support program would be implemented but that it would not apply to the softwood lumber sector. In my opinion, this should go further.

The hon. member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup spoke earlier of the Minister of Industry's inertia, which did not help the industries and allowed free enterprise to rule. Can the hon. member tell us what concrete measures the Conservative government should apply in order to support the softwood lumber industry?

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his very wise comments.

First the Conservative government needs to acknowledge that this agreement is not perfect and that it has flaws. In my opinion, no Canadian would voluntarily give $1 billion to the Americans, $500 million of which will be allocated to the U.S. softwood lumber industry so that it can compete with us. This is one of the flaws of the agreement. That does not mean it should not be signed. It means there is a major flaw in the agreement.

However, it is in response to these flaws that an assistance plan comes into play. With such flaws, there needs to be compensation that allows our industry to face increased, somewhat undue, competition, which was financed with our very own money.

Our assistance plan suggests offering preferential tax treatment for the $4.3 billion of countervailing duties and anti-dumping charges that will be reimbursed by the U.S. authorities, in order to take into account the loss the companies have suffered.

This money will be refunded to companies early in December and will be considered revenue. It is being repaid at a time when the Canadian dollar is worth 90¢ American, whereas the payment to the Americans was made when the Canadian dollar was worth 65¢ American, which means that the companies are losing out.

Yesterday, we saw that the Conservative government can announce sudden cuts at the same time as it announces last year's $12 billion surplus. When making economic statements, the Conservative government could decide to give our industries a break by allowing them to declare the revenue for the year in which they paid out the amounts to the Americans. These companies must not suffer an additional loss with the repayment in 2006, when they paid these amounts in 2003, 2004 and 2005.

This is the sort of practical measure we would like to see for the industry. For the sake of older workers, we also hope that the Conservative government will realize that the agreement it signed will continue to have a highly detrimental impact on the economy, the forestry industry and the rest of the manufacturing sector.

It would therefore be appropriate to table a plan to help older workers who lose their jobs. Such a plan would cost $75 million annually, but Canada had a $12 billion surplus last year. This is disproportionate when we consider the individuals who are suffering the consequences of the softwood lumber crisis. The worker in St-Pamphile did not cause the crisis, the federal government did, in the way it negotiated with the Americans.

In the end, the government is forcing us to signed a flawed agreement. But plant workers and their families will suffer the consequences of that agreement every day. That is why our repeated calls for an older worker assistance program are appropriate and justified. It is time for the Conservative government to put older workers front and centre in an assistance plan for the entire forestry industry, in order to deal with this crisis.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to speak on this important issue, the softwood lumber agreement, or should I say disagreement.

I had the opportunity to listen to the Minister of International Trade start off the debate in the House yesterday. I heard, as all Canadians did, how the agreement in his opinion would provide for years of stability and again in his opinion we would have eight or nine years of harmony and stability in our industry. To me that is a joke. I do not know if the minister was guessing, praying or just dreaming.

Thankfully, the next speaker was the member for Beauséjour and he put some facts on the table, facts like how the government left over $1 billion of Canadian companies' money in the hands of those who started and perpetuated the lumber trade dispute. What a sellout. Even worse than a sellout, we have to pay for being right. We are financing the very groups that caused all the problems. What a sad day for Canadian companies to have to pay those groups that do not want free trade in the lumber market.

All Canadian companies wanted was fair and open access to the markets of our largest and closest trading partner, our friends in the United States. To be sold out and then threatened by our own government shows just how desperate the government is to ram through this project.

Before I continue, I would like to make it clear that I believe that industry especially in my riding needs some of this money. There are people in my riding who feel we should take this deal. They are scared for their immediate future in an industry that is evermore precarious.

People in Kenora riding also recognize that this is a bad deal. I am voicing their frustration that the government was unable to deliver a better deal for their families. I am against supporting this deal because I have to stand up for the people who have been forced to take it.

Canada has repeatedly won favourable rulings at WTO and NAFTA. We are members of these international trade tribunals to ensure that trading practices are executed in a fair manner. We have a responsibility to accept the decisions that tribunals make, as does any other member, including the United States. By accepting a deal that is contrary to the rulings that have been made, our credibility and standing will be seriously undermined in any future trade disputes.

The forestry industry is the most important industry for the people of Kenora riding. Our communities are dependent upon these jobs. Just as they are dependent, our communities are devastated when the industry is in decline.

The industry has been faced with many obstacles. Very high energy costs, transportation costs because of the huge distances we have to travel, and the lack of ability to invest in research and development are just some of the examples. With those obstacles came job loss. In December last year the Abitibi mill in Kenora was shut down causing a loss of over 450 jobs. Days later, hundreds of jobs were lost in my home community of Dryden. These are jobs lost in a community where there is only one industry. It is totally devastating to the community.

Our way of life is in jeopardy in northern Ontario. We need the federal government to step up and stand up for us, not sell us out at any cost to get a photo op with the American president.

One of the biggest challenges our industry has faced is the softwood lumber dispute. As I have said before in the House, the forestry industry in my part of the world is an integrated industry. Every type of mill, be it a sawmill, pulp and paper mill, or value added, depends on the others for success. When the sawmill operations were forced to pay the illegal tariff, the financial repercussions rippled throughout the industry and throughout the communities.

We have been negotiating this deal for years. In that time the effects of the tariff have devastated every sector of the industry. The money that the industry receives from this deal will only go so far. The federal government must recognize the industry needs more support, more assistance simply than the money that is being returned to them. Many of our mills have not had equipment upgrades in years and they are unable to look beyond the current markets they access for new ones. They have been financially choked to the point where they are desperate. What does our government offer them? A bad deal, “take it or we will impose a 19% export tax and crush the rest of your company”.

We must look beyond the optics of the negotiation of the deal and look at the industry in its entirety. That is what the former Liberal government did. It recognized the softwood lumber dispute was only part of the problem and it set out an aggressive plan to help the industry overcome some of the other obstacles caused directly and indirectly by the dispute.

We must help the industry enhance its competitiveness. Funding research and development initiatives is key. Considering the growing bioeconomy, this is the opportunity for the Canadian industry to be a world leader with support from its federal government.

We must support companies that are willing to expand their operations. The Kenora Forest Products sawmill for example has been working hard to create more jobs in its plant in order to assist the community impacted by other mill closures. The Prendivilles are community leaders and they want to help Kenora. They are ready to accept this so-called deal because it is this or nothing. What kind of choice is that for a government to force on a hard hit community?

We must also support economic diversification projects for communities with a dependence on this industry considering the tough times they are having. The mayor and city councillors in Kenora along with other stakeholders have worked tirelessly to develop an action plan to help Kenora's economy. The city has enormous potential in other economic endeavours but requires the full support of the federal government to achieve its goals.

The industry is already at a disadvantage and now the government will force the deal on Canadian lumber producers that again will see $500 million left in the hands of the American lumber industry; those very people who lobbied and were successful against ours. That is not to mention that if a company decides not to support this deal, it will in fact face a 19% levy on all refunded duty deposits.

Without the return of 100% of money taken by the American government and the commitment by the Conservative government to assist the entire industry long term, more jobs will be lost. This take it or leave it attitude will hurt confidence in the sector. What other industry in Canada has had to put up with the heavy hand of the government that says it is this way or no way? Whose side is the government on, the Canadian industry or the American lumber lobby?

Northern Ontario is a very beautiful, wild and abundant place. We work hard, we play hard, and we want the best for our families, for our communities and for our country. Give us the support and the tools to build our industries. Give us the confidence that our government will defend our rights to manage our forests for our future, not sell us out to lobby groups funded by our own money.

In northern Ontario we want a softwood lumber agreement that protects us, our future and our forests. In this agreement we have nothing, nothing but more problems in the future, less control of our forests and our industry, and clearly a government that will sell us out.

I cannot support this deal knowing that more jobs will be lost. I cannot support this deal knowing that we are selling out to the American lumber lobby. I cannot support this deal knowing that hundreds of millions of dollars will be left in the United States in the very hands of the people who did this to us. I will not support this deal because I need to stand up for the workers in the communities of Kenora riding.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to my colleague's comments.

Perfect deals exist in dreams. There is an old Japanese proverb that says “vision without action equals daydreams”. I think the member opposite and perhaps his party have been daydreaming since the time that they were prepared to accept a deal that was much less beneficial to the industry than the deal that we have negotiated.

Even if Canada were ultimately successful in this round of litigation, which is far from a certainty, without a negotiated agreement, does the hon. member not realize that the very next day that U.S. interests could very easily launch another set of suits that would delay this again? We would be facing an interminable list of these kinds of actions without a negotiated agreement, which we have today and which is better than the one that the Liberals were prepared to accept not that long ago.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, part of the challenge in politics is to make sure one does not believe one's own press releases. That is clearly happening on the other side of the House because this deal is not better than what we had before.

We have been successful in winning many times at the tribunals. The courts believed in what we were doing.

I want to explain for a minute that the softwood lumber dispute was not the majority of trade in Canada. The vast majority of trade in Canada is very successful. However, when two good friends and family, like Canada and the United States, have a disagreement they have to go somewhere to get it solved. We had to go to the courts.

We were rapidly nearing the end of the first test case. Once we had a decision on it, on which we had been successful every bit of the way and once we had a decision on that, we were going to fare far better in any future cases. However, when friends cannot get along, we had to get someone to help us and that was the courts.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

I recognize the hon. member for Winnipeg Centre, mindful of the fact that there is another questioner. We have three minutes for two questions and two answers.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I will try to be brief.

I first want to thank my colleague, the member for Kenora, for the courageous position that he has taken. I know the impact that softwood lumber squabbles have had on the riding of Kenora. I know the Prendiville family. I know the industry in that area that neighbours so closely my own province of Manitoba. I also know that my colleague, the member for Kenora, is a trapper.

Earlier, I used the analogy that I read somewhere that a beaver when cornered or when trapped chews off its own testicles. I use the analogy that while the beaver is certainly an apt symbol for Canada in that way because successive Tory governments when backed into a corner and bullied by the Americans have bit off big chunks of Canadian sovereignty as they have with the deal signed today.

I ask my colleague, as a trapper, does he know for a fact if this is true, that a beaver will bite off its own testicles? And, does he think the analogy is appropriate and accurate that the Conservatives are biting off big chunks of their ability to defend themselves when they signed this softwood lumber deal?

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious place and I try to remain serious at all times, so I will be careful as to how I answer this question.

We talk about desperation and this was a government that was desperate to get a deal. Many years ago when the free trade agreement was negotiated, we saw a prime minister intervene directly and was not able to get the deal we needed in softwood lumber. Again at this point we see a Conservative Prime Minister that is desperate to have a deal done. He has an agreement and made a deal that is going to hurt us in the future. It is not going to protect our sovereignty or our ability to decide the future of our forests with sustainability in mind.

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I know my colleague, the hon. member for Kenora, takes the discussions and debates here seriously and I know he cares deeply about his constituency as well. What are the people in his riding saying? What are the employees and employers in the softwood lumber industry in his riding telling him to do with this deal?

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when I meet people on the street, they are not upset with the Americans in any way. In my part of the country there is a lot of tourism traffic and business for the Americans. People do not blame the Americans for this deal. They blame the Conservative government for not standing up for us and not protecting us.

One of the most basic values was getting the money back. This money was collected illegally, these billions of dollars. The government should not brag about getting 83% back. That is not a good deal. We needed 100%. We needed to ensure we brought this money back to Canada to provide jobs in the future, to allow companies to grow and expand, and use technology to enhance what we do in northern Ontario.

It is not a good deal. The people on the street are mad, but they are mad at the Conservative government.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour and a privilege to rise in the House this afternoon to speak to Bill C-24. I know I only have a short time to address the bill. I want to speak about the myth that the status quo will suffice.

The status quo will not suffice. It is simply not enough that Canada is right. Canada wins the disputes and the tribunals find in our favour again and again. In practical terms, being right is an anti-victory if it does not bring resolution. What good is it if we win the battle but lose the war? Without this agreement we have no resolution.

The opposition is suggesting that the status quo will suffice. The status quo does not suffice for this government. Canada's new government has opted for moving forward. It has opted for an agreement that spells an end to the status quo, an agreement that returns over 80% of losses to be invested back into our industry, instead of the millions more that will leave Canada if the current situation prevails.

I applaud and accolade the Prime Minister, Minister of Industry, and the Minister of International Trade who have worked so hard to develop this agreement. I know the ministers have taken a lot of heat over this. I want to personally thank the minister on behalf of all Canadians. He has shown that his diligence, wisdom and expertise has shone brightly for all Canadians. We should all be proud of him.

The government has opted for an agreement and a future that will allow our lumber producers to get on with business free from non-stop litigation, which to many is an American pastime. If anyone has ever studied south of the 49th parallel, they will understand that Americans take their lawyers and litigation very seriously. I think it is just a road to nowhere to continue that path.

Members on the other side called the agreement a sellout. The real sellouts are those who opt to do nothing. The hard fact is that the future of our lumber industry is in trade and the stronger trade agreements we have the more stable our industry will be.

Business cannot survive on a diet of hope. Business relies on stability and certainty. Like it or not, wish for a perfect world, but this agreement will keep industries from shutting down. The agreement keeps people working, puts food on the tables and that is no myth.

As the member of Parliament for Kelowna—Lake Country in beautiful British Columbia, I am acutely aware of the importance of moving forward on softwood lumber. This agreement has been accepted by the province of British Columbia, by the minister of forests, by the lumber producers in my riding and, more importantly, my constituents have overwhelmingly supported this agreement. It is time to move forward. The opposition sits in the House and says it had no choice, that they were abandoned by the government. This is absolutely false.

As a matter of fact, I sat in a meeting this morning with Premier Campbell of British Columbia. I did not get the impression that he would say B.C. was forced to support this agreement nor that he had no choice. Premier Campbell was very happy. He got everything that he was looking for as far as a negotiated settlement. In a perfect world we like a perfect deal, but Premier Campbell being a realist knows this is great for British Columbia and all of Canada.

Premier Campbell worked actively to ensure that this agreement would serve B.C. lumber producers very effectively. I would like to thank Premier Campbell for his efforts as well. The fact is that B.C. is on side. B.C. is interested in strengthening freer trade and our softwood lumber industry. Unlike the opposition, B.C. wants to move forward.

It is time that Liberal and NDP members get behind B.C. Some 57% of Canada's lumber exports to the United States come from British Columbia. It is time these members got behind our communities and the lumber producers that employ them. In my riding alone there are over 1,000 people directly employed by the softwood lumber industry. Kelowna—Lake Country is in the heart of Canada's softwood industry. My riding is situated in southern British Columbia and the producers in my riding typically export between 70% to 80% of the product south of the border.

Kelowna falls under the Okanagan timber supply area which has an AAC or an allowable annual cut of almost 3 million cubic metres. This comprises 6.9% of British Columbia's total AAC.

Tolko Industries, which I would also like to congratulate on celebrating its 50th anniversary this year, produces 144 million board feet annually. Gorman Bros. Lumber, which is across the lake in Westbank, has an annual capacity of 96 million board feet. We also have a mill, Oyama Forest Products, and it has annual estimated capacity of about 4.8 million board feet.

These numbers are from 2001, but they at least demonstrate a capacity of over 249 million board feet being produced locally. When we compare this to the 21.5 billion board feet a year Canada exports to the United States, we find that the Kelowna--Lake Country area produces almost 1% of Canada's total softwood exports. This is to say nothing of the additional Tolko veneer and plywood plant, which has an annual capacity of some 280 million square feet.

Therefore, I can speak confidently about the effects of this agreement on my constituents, and the effects will be positive.

Canada has worked closely with provinces and industry stakeholders throughout the softwood lumber dispute to secure a durable agreement with the United States that promotes a stable bilateral trade agreement in which Canada's softwood lumber exporters and industry can profit and prosper. The agreement has that stability and certainty the industry is looking for. It will see a return of most of their duties collected on softwood lumber. As I said, that will be over 80%.

The agreement maximizes the benefits to the Canadian industry and the workers and communities that depend upon it. That is the bottom line: the people of our ridings across the country. The 308 of us here represent the workers, their families and the industry.

The agreement will be for a term of seven years with an option to renew for two additional years. The legal text specifies those lumber products that will be subject to any export measures.

The agreement includes the full and complete revocation of the U.S. countervailing and anti-dumping duties and the return of over $4 billion in duties collected by the United States since 2002 through a deposits mechanism that will ensure companies receive this money as quickly as possible. Once again, our new government is creating ways of trying to bring that money back into the industry's hands as soon as possible.

The agreement includes the safeguarding of the provinces' ability to manage their forest services and a choice for provinces of the border measure that best addresses their individual economic and commercial situations. The key word there is “choice”. Also included is the establishment of a range of initiatives to enhance binational cooperation and the development of a North American lumber industry.

The softwood lumber agreement is good for Canada and good for the softwood lumber industry. The agreement eliminates U.S. duties, returns more than $4.3 billion to producers, provides stability for industry, and brings an end to this long-running dispute and costly litigation between Canada and the United States. The return of more than $4 billion U.S. marks a significant infusion of capital for the industry and will benefit workers and communities.

Canada and the United States can now turn the page on this dispute and we can direct our full attention to building a stronger, more competitive North America. That is the key. We can move forward now. We can turn the page and continue to move forward rather than hashing out the dithering that went on in regard to this file for the last 13 years and specifically for the last five years.

In closing, I agree with Tolko president and chief executive officer Mr. Al Thorlakson, who said:

This Agreement is a long way from perfect, but the realities of the U.S. industry and the U.S. marketplace have to be considered.

Once again, he is a realist. We are living in a real world. We do not have a perfect world and we have to come to a compromise. It reminds me of Preston Manning, who sat in this House for many years, and of his perspective on Canadians and working on and negotiating deals. He once said, “Why did the Canadian cross the road? It was to get to the middle”.

I think this agreement is a great compromise for Canadians and North Americans in general. We can work in harmony together as we move forward.

Canadian companies can compete and outperform American producers. This is because of the quality and abundance of our timber resources as well as the ingenuity, efficiency and dedication of our rank and file workers. Our softwood lumber companies, because of the past five years, have been forced to be leaner and more efficient. With this agreement about to be implemented, I am fully confident in the upcoming prosperity for our forestry sector.

[Lui Temelkovski, Liberal, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with enthusiasm. I wanted to make sure that I caught as much as I could of the words from my colleague across the floor.

Canadians across the country have said that the new Conservative Party is a principled party, a party of law and order. Maybe the member could tell us where he sees the law and order in this, in giving up so much money. Also, where is the principle and how is it upheld when so many tribunals and trade panels have ruled in our favour?

How are the Conservatives defending that when they are looking at being so principled and a law and order party?

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that is a great question from the hon. member opposite. I also congratulate him on his appointment as vice-chair of our international trade committee, where we have been able to discuss this for many hours and listen to witnesses from across the country.

The fact is that Canada's new government, under the leadership of our Prime Minister, has indicated that we will move toward freer and fairer trade. That is exactly what this agreement does, with over 81% coming back into the pockets of the industry, providing certainty and stability. It provides what is needed by the industry.

We have the support from the major industry producer provinces across the country. We have the industry onside. We have the constituents onside. I do not understand why the member opposite would not be onside.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, seeing as my colleague from the Conservatives who was speaking is from B.C., I wonder if he is aware of a Vancouver Sun article published earlier this year. It leaked the details of a leaked letter from the Bush administration to the U.S. lumber lobby. In it, the American administration confirmed that its objective was to hobble the Canadian industry for seven years. That was a letter from the Bush administration to the U.S. lumber lobby, printed in the Vancouver Sun, which admits that the American administration confirmed that its objective was to hobble the Canadian industry for seven years.

I am wondering how a representative from an area that relies on lumber can simply be cooperating with this agreement when the best interests of Canada are not at stake here. The best interests of the Americans are being served.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege to answer that question. First of all, we have a very reliable research and development department. We do not rely on the media for the information. I spent over a decade working in the media. We cannot always believe everything we hear on TV or read in the paper.

Here are the facts. We have over 81% of the money going back into the industry. We have the industry onside, as well as the governments of B.C., Ontario, Quebec and the Atlantic provinces. We have over 90% of the industry onside. We are providing that certainty and stability for the industry. That is how I can support this deal.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there has been a suggestion that the industry was bullied into accepting this deal after initially rejecting it. The industry minister himself warned the softwood lumber companies that they should either take the deal or the government would walk away from them. In fact, the government said that loan guarantees put in place before the last election would be taken off the table. The government demonstrated that it would punish companies that refused to sign on to the agreement. It also includes a 19% levy on all refunded duty deposits.

There seem to be some indications that there was some bullying on this sellout. Could the member confirm that in fact those conditions were presented to the softwood lumber industry?

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

The hon. member for Kelowna--Lake Country has less than half a minute.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, very briefly, we had industry consultation from across this country. We heard anybody who wanted to come to the committee. We heard from every witness on both sides of the issue. I have met with individuals, groups and organizations. There was no indication at any time that they did not have any consultation.

All I can say is that this deal, with 81% going back to the industry, is far better than the agreement the member opposite in the previous government--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Brant.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have an opportunity to speak to Bill C-24, a bill that has been described in various ways and in particular has been described as essentially the best deal under the circumstances.

This was definitely not the best deal under the circumstances for both parties, though it could forcefully and persuasively be suggested that it is truly the best deal in any and all circumstances for the United States. It is not the best deal for our Canadian industry and justifiably and not unfairly can be described as a capitulation on the part of our government to forces within the U.S. industry and within the U.S. government.

What is abundantly clear and beyond dispute is that the United States improperly imposed duties in excess of $5 billion, and the negotiated settlement will return to Canadian producers, whose hands are entirely clean, only 80¢ on every dollar or some $4 billion.

If we were negotiating with an impecunious party, receiving only 80¢ back when fully one dollar is owed may be considered a good deal, arguably the best deal under the circumstances. However, in spite of the fact that President Bush, due to providing tax cuts for the wealthiest and due further to his ill-advised war on Iraq, is running annual deficits of some $500 billion, with the result that the U.S. debt is in the trillions of dollars, to the best of my knowledge the fact remains that the United States is not an impoverished or impecunious party. Simply put, it has the means to pay back every dollar which is owed by it and this deal allows it to wiggle out of its obligations and, again, to repay only $4 billion of the more than $5.2 billion owed.

How that partial repayment to Canadians can be described as “the best deal in the circumstances” makes no logical sense. Of the $1.2 billion that will be kept--kept in my view improperly--by the Americans, fully $500 million will remain in the hands of the U.S. lumber industry and a further $500 million will remain in the hands of the U.S. government.

Our government, unhappily, has seen fit to abandon or to ignore all of the legal victories we have achieved under the rules of international trade. We have essentially given up $1.2 billion to the United States in exchange for, at best, 18 months of relative peace or relative harmony within the industry.

We should certainly be concerned about other industries, manufacturing or otherwise, which will then seek recourse under NAFTA. It is quite likely that other U.S. sectors will seek political alternatives in order to get around the clear rules of free trade. We have been bullied into this settlement by the Americans, and at some point the bully needs to be confronted, to be challenged, or we will be bullied again.

Canada's legal position was very strong. It was supported or confirmed by numerous decisions of international trade law tribunals and domestic courts, both here in Canada and also in the United States. It is most regrettable that the government has bullied Canadian industry with an ultimatum, saying that it must accept this deal, flawed as it is, or the government will abandon it. I am referring, of course, to the fact that loan guarantees, which were put in place before the last election, were taken off the table and the government threatened to abandon the industry if it chose to pursue its legal rights instead of accepting the deal.

The deal is flawed in various respects, including the fact that it directly abandons our long-held position that our softwood industry is not subsidized. The deal further creates an export tax, which is actually higher than U.S. duties. That is, the government intends to impose substantial crippling export duties on softwood, which will add billions to the government's general revenue stream within the next few years but will be punitive indeed for our producers.

The Liberal Party is committed to helping the softwood lumber industry. Our priority is to truly assist the industry on both a long and a short term basis, and not to be bullied by or capitulate to the American government or to the American industry.

We are proposing a supplementary aid package that would result in, first, the provision of $200 million over two years to enhance the forest industries' competitive position, to improve its environmental performance and to take advantage of the growing bioeconomy; second, the provision of $40 million over two years to improve the overall performance of the national forest innovative system; and third, the provision of $100 million over two years to support economic diversification and capacity building in those communities affected by job losses in the forest industry.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

It is unfortunate that I must interrupt the hon. member but the time allotted for government orders has now expired. When we next return to the debate on Bill C-24 there will be four minutes left for the member.

Hockey

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Speaker, for weeks the great Canadian pastime has been getting into high gear. Girls and boys, the young and the not so young, have been dusting off their skates, wiping off the rust and airing out their equipment. It is hockey time in Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound.

In every town, minor hockey associations are gearing up for another great season of hockey. Also ready to go for the season are our senior A Durham Thundercats, our junior B Owen Sound Greys, the junior C Hanover Barons and, of course, the OHL's pride and joy, Owen Sound Attack.

The Attack start the season ranked sixth in Canada by The Hockey News. With the return of stalwarts like Bobby Ryan, Bob Sanguinetti, Theo Peckham and other NHL draft picks, the Attack will be a force to be reckoned with. They defeated the Soo Greyhounds 4-3 Saturday night in their home opener.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to invite you and my colleagues to Vancouver in May to watch the Attack, of course after they mow down the OHL, win their very first Memorial Cup.

I wish good luck to all participants in the great--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

The hon. member for Yukon.