House of Commons Hansard #23 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was prison.

Topics

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I completely agree with the provisions my colleague read.

Here are my thoughts on the non-essential nature of this bill. According to the information my colleague mentioned, it is still up to the boards to take into account the additional factor of refusing to provide a urine sample or failing the test. Even if the person does not pass the test, Bill C-12 does not say that he or she would lose parole because the other factors could be enough.

Perhaps the board will find that the person needs a program. Statistics show that most crimes are committed by people who already have serious drug use problems. That is why eliminating prison programs that can help people stop using that crap leaves them ill-equipped to deal with their addiction after they leave prison.

Still, for reasons like those my colleague listed, the board may decide to let that person go because the board and provincial boards can authorize parole if they believe that the likelihood the offender will commit another crime before the sentence is up does not present an unacceptable risk to society and that parole will help protect society.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Clarke Conservative Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. French is not my first language. I just want further clarification. The member used the word “merde”, which is a profanity in French. Hopefully, my colleague could clarify that for me.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, the dictionary does not list it as a profanity. People can even use it in the theatre. Anyone can say “merde”. There are other ways of saying it that could be interpreted otherwise, but as far as I am aware, it is not a prohibited word.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

The Chair will review Hansard, and if there is any cause to return to the House on this matter we will do so.

Secondly, the time had expired for the answer from the member.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Québec.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC

Mr. Speaker, I listened to my hon. colleague's speech and I think she raised a very important point regarding this very conservative vision of public safety. I recognize this vision when the Conservatives say they are tough on crime, for example.

I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on what the Minister of Public Safety said last December, before he was in that role, regarding the mass shooting that had taken place in the United States. He said that it happened at a very bad time.

I wonder what my hon. colleague thinks of that, because I found that comment utterly appalling. It probably explains why we are in this situation and it explains the Conservatives' current policies.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would say that sometimes people speak before they think, although I always try to think carefully about the words I use. Sometimes I am shocked at some of the expressions people use.

Mass shootings are always at the wrong time. There is no good time for a mass shooting. That was a poor choice of words.

I would also encourage my colleagues to look at how he described these kinds of problems when he introduced the new bill on people found not criminally responsible. If someone is found not criminally responsible, it suggests that that individual has some serious, severe problems. The government does not deny that in Bill C-14; the government is simply giving it some framework. We are talking about individuals who have serious, severe mental health issues.

I encourage everyone, including my colleague from Québec, to look up the expression that was used. I do not wish to misquote, so I encourage her to look it up. However, I was shocked myself, because the word choice suggested that being found not criminally responsible was almost a fallacy and something completely disconnected from reality, when in fact, it stems from a very serious mental health condition.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Gatineau for something she raised today, and that is the bumper sticker approach to titling bills. I think it is quite appropriate and it is something we will hear again now that she has brought that into our discourse here.

Maybe the member can say why the Conservatives seem to think we can solve drug problems with moral condemnation and with interdiction. They spent more than $100 million on interdiction measures in the prisons without any impact at all on the rate of drug use. Therefore, where does that leave us with this kind of bumper sticker slogan and huge expenditures on interdiction without getting any results?

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would say that is what I find most troubling about the Conservatives' bills. They give the impression that they are going to make prisons drug-free and they say that they will make the streets safer, but all they are really doing is adopting bumper sticker measures. We can almost assume that they will do nothing else. That is the irony I was trying to get across.

I agree that we should support the bill. However, what I am saying is that they should not lead us to believe that it will make prisons drug-free. Let us be serious. When people read the three small paragraphs, they will not believe that a scourge that the government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to eliminate from prisons will vanish. It will continue to be a problem. It is one of the major problems. People are not fools.

However, if the government really believes that it will make prisons drug-free, we have a serious public safety issue because the government will not do anything else.

That worries me and I am telling the people of Gatineau to be careful, because this government does not really care about making our streets and communities safer. Another example is what they did with the gun registry. Every police force told the government not to abolish it, but it did not listen. However, it will have the police parade around for bills that suit its purposes.

It is always a little worrisome when they try to lead people on. My parents always told me that things are never as simple as they seem. I am more bothered by the use of words like “drug-free” than the one I just used when I said that being in drug hell is rather crappy.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the question to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment is as follows: the hon. member for Ahuntsic, Aboriginal Affairs.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-12, an act to amend the Corrections and Conditional Release Act.

It is something like the bumper sticker approach the previous member talked about. The title of the bill, the drug-free prisons act, is really little more than a rhetorical statement when one examines the content of the bill itself. I will get to that.

First I want to say, after listening to today's question period and the antics of the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister, that it is quite a contradiction. When we, here in this House, are constantly dealing with so-called tough-on-crime bills, we are actually looking across the aisle at a Conservative government that has to be the most crooked and corrupt government this country has ever seen. There is no question about it. The parliamentary secretary gets up and fires attacks at others, with no basis for those comments. The ones who are heckling over there at the moment stand to support the parliament secretary in those kinds of antics. That is wrong.

I will say it again. This is the most crooked and corrupt government this country has ever seen. Bribes coming out of the Prime Minister's Office—

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Order, please.

The Chair would ask the hon. member for Malpeque to have regard to language that he knows is not parliamentary. He is a veteran in this place. I would encourage him to get on with the matter at hand, the business that is before the House.

The hon. member for Malpeque.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, I will get on with the business at hand and get to the bill. However, I will say this about what went on here today. If the Speaker is accusing me of using unparliamentary language and unparliamentary antics, then I would ask the Speaker to go back and look at what the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister was saying in this House.

I am one of the individuals he attacked. I would tell the parliamentary secretary to say it out there. That is why I am on my feet on this point. I will leave it at that, but this has to stop, these kinds of antics by this parliamentary secretary in attacking individuals and smearing their names, with no basis in fact.

I will get back to Bill C-12. As I said, the title of the bill, drug-free prisons act, is little more than a rhetorical statement when one examines the contents of the bill itself.

In his 2011-2012 annual report, the Correctional Investigator made the following observation with respect to the prevalence of drugs within our federal prisons:

A “zero-tolerance” stance to drugs in prisons, while perhaps serving as an effective deterrent posted at the entry point of a penitentiary, simply does not accord with the facts of crime and addiction in Canada or elsewhere in the world.

That quote is on page 17 of his report.

Bill C-12 targets individual offenders by imposing requirements for the provision of urine tests subsequent to having obtained parole, statutory release, or an unescorted temporary absence.

This legislation makes no reference to, nor in any respect addresses, the problem of offenders with drug and alcohol addiction problems or in any manner addresses the access and prevalence of drugs within federal institutions.

Currently, under the act, when staff or authorities have grounds to suspect a violation by an offender with respect to drug use while on parole, work release, temporary absences, or statutory release, they can order a urinalysis test. These tests are conducted to ensure that the conditions upon which release was granted are respected and adhered to. Within institutions, such tests can be ordered on a random and collective basis if individuals are, again, on reasonable grounds, suspected of the use of illegal drugs.

Bill C-12 does little to contribute to what the Office of the Correctional Investigator called for in his most recent annual report:

... a comprehensive and integrated drug strategy should include a balance of measures—prevention, treatment, harm reduction and interdiction.

That was in the annual report, 2011-2012, page 17.

While the Liberal Party is supportive of initiatives that will enhance a drug-free prison environment, the issue is with respect to the methods adopted to achieve this objective.

Bill C-12 is taking an exclusively punitive course of action that targets individual offenders who have been granted parole and those being granted statutory release or an unescorted temporary absence. The requirement is that prior to release, the offender, having been approved for release in the case of parole, must provide a urine sample, and in the case of statutory release or an unescorted temporary absence, could be so required.

There is nothing in this legislation related to what appears to be a wider systematic problem of drugs within federal institutions, their prevalence, and their access. Certainly there is nothing in this bill, and I believe other speakers have brought this point up as well, that talks about the cost of these decisions. Will it mean more time in prison? Will it mean more expense? The government always fails in these justice bills to bring in the cost factor along with the bill so that we can see a cost-benefit analysis.

In any event, we know that the Conservatives' whole approach to law and order is punishment, punishment, punishment. Bill C-12 is a measure that at best can be said to address the symptoms of a serious Correctional Service problem without contributing anything of substance to resolving the problem.

I will move away from the bill for a moment and talk about an institution in the private sector, in Guelph, called the Stonehenge Therapeutic Community. It is one of Canada's longest-serving substance abuse treatment programs, with separate facilities for men and women with chronic or acute substance abuse issues. It provides a full spectrum of addiction treatment programs to clients and their families as well as to those involved in provincial and federal corrections. Its services range from what it calls “Let's Grow Together Day” to support groups for pregnant and parenting women in the community, to the long-term residential programs it offers men and women from across Ontario and throughout the country. It has become a benchmark in addiction treatment and prevention, empowering clients with the skills to choose a healthy lifestyle and to thrive within their communities. It is a well-run institution, with quite a history, that has done well with drug abuse and substance problems.

The government's proposed drug-free prisons act really does nothing along those lines. It does nothing in terms of building a strategy to effectively deal with the problem.

The objective of government policy should be to ensure that offenders, when in the process of assessing parole or other forms of release, are less likely to have been exposed to the use of contraband drugs within the institutions. Bill C-12 in no respect aims to address this issue. In fairness to the Correctional Service, and even in fairness to the minister, preventing drugs in prison is not an easy endeavour.

I would suggest that if one were to walk into a prison, pull out a wallet, and take out five twenty dollar bills—I say five, but you, Mr. Speaker, would probably have twenty in yours—as long as they were not brand new, and put it through the machine that tests for drug residue, one would find that a good number of the bills would, in fact, have drug residue on them. It is unbelievable.

I have been in those institutions. I have talked to inmates and Correctional Service workers. In fairness to the government, it is not an easy endeavour to prevent drugs from entering prisons. That is why it is much more important to try to address the issue in a holistic sense.

This legislation would target those who have been granted parole, statutory release, or an unescorted temporary absence. What has to be considered is that a great proportion of the people in federal prison have serious substance abuse problems. They had them before they went in, and sometimes their substance abuse within the institution, sad to say, even with everything that is done, gets worse.

According to the 2011-2012 annual report of the Correctional Investigator, “Almost two-thirds of federal offenders”, keeping in mind that the current population is approximately 15,000, which means an estimated 10,000 offenders are involved, “report being under the influence of alcohol or other intoxicants when they committed the offence that led to their incarceration”.

What is more disturbing is that on page 15 of that report, it states that “A very high percentage of the offender population that abuses drugs is also concurrently struggling with mental illness”.

According to evidence provided to the public safety committee by the Commissioner of the Correctional Service of Canada, “Upon admission, 80% of offenders have a serious substance abuse problem”. He went on to inform the committee that “anywhere up to 90% of a standing prison population would have a lifetime problem of substance misuse or dependence” and “This dependency does not magically disappear when they arrive at our gates”, meaning at the prison gates.

I quote those statistics because it speaks to the seriousness of the problem. Just presenting a drug-free prison bill to the House is not going to solve the problem in any way. It is much bigger than that.

Because the minister may go out there and say, “Look what I've done”, the government cannot take a bumper sticker approach stating that the minister has said that we will have drug-free prisons. The reality is far from that. How does one invoke a strategy about drugs in prisons, one that will work with offenders to get them off drugs and substances, get them back into society and contributing to it in a positive way to the economy of the country and to raising families, rather than costing over $100,000 a year? The government should be looking at that.

The issue of drug prevalence and use within federal institutions is a complex problem. The Correctional Investigator has acknowledged that the presence of intoxicants and contraband substances is difficult to measure and monitor. While a number of seizures under the interdiction initiatives of the Correctional Service of Canada has increased, there is no way of yet determining if “the service is on top of the problem or simply scratching the surface”.

I will give the minister credit for this. In August, the Minister of Public Safety announced a five-year, $120-million investment into CSC's anti-drug strategy. The investment contained the following four components: expansion of drug detector dog teams, hiring of new security intelligence officers, new detection equipment, and more stringent search standards. According to the Correctional Investigator, the results of these measures, although done with good intent and a heck of a lot stronger intent than this bill, appear mixed and somewhat distorted.

For example, while there has been an increase in the amount of drugs seized, the scope of the problem is difficult to determine. With respect to the results of the random urinalysis tests administered, there has been a decline within institutions. However, after correcting for the removal of prescription drugs, the rate of positive random urinalysis tests has remained relatively unchanged over the past decade, despite increased interdiction efforts. Don Head, Commissioner of Correctional Service of Canada, confirmed this conclusion in testimony before the public safety committee in December 2011.

Correctional Service of Canada's current anti-drug strategy, according to the Correctional Investigator, lacks three key elements. I do not see any of these three key elements in this bill, but let us name them. What does the Correctional Investigator claim are the three key elements to deal with an anti-drug strategy within prison? What are they?

First is an integrated link between interdiction and prevention, treatment and harm reduction. Second is a comprehensive public reporting mechanism. Third is a well-defined evaluation, review, and performance plan to measure the effectiveness of investments.

None of that is happening in this bill. What might have been of value prior to Bill C-12 is that these elements would have been addressed by CSC to determine the efficacy of the programs currently in place and upon which Bill C-12 is building.

In my view, it does not bode well that CSC's substance abuse programming budget fell from $11 million in 2008-09 to $9 million in 2010-11. The way to deal with this problem is not by taking money from the very programs that are in effect to deal with the problem itself.

Bill C-12, without the appropriate in-facility measures and assistance, is merely a punitive measure. It may prevent some people from getting out, it will add costs to the system and still, in effect, it will really do nothing about the drug problem at the end of the day.

We will be recommending that the legislation be approved at second reading for further study before committee. I believe there is a lot the government has to answer for in terms of what it has not done to really deal effectively with the drug problems in our prisons.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate some of the comments from the member opposite. I choose to overlook his collective memory failure regarding the previous government having some failures, scandals in leadership, and colleagues who had not paid back their fees and so on.

The member was a former attorney general, and he made some comments about being in prisons and caring about prisoners. As the chair of the fisheries committee, he was a pretty good oyster shucker and he did a great job in that assignment, so I want to give him a little slack in that regard.

I appreciate the member has mentioned that it is not an easy problem to eradicate. It has been around. It is in other countries as well. I had an interesting conversation about this with one of his former cabinet colleagues standing in line at an airport one day. I said, “When they go into prison as an addict, I would hope that we could at least bring them out of prison free of that problem”. The response from that cabinet colleague was, “Oh, no, we have to give them drugs in prison. That is where most of them get on drugs”.

Does the member agree with his former cabinet colleague?

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, I do not know who the cabinet colleague was, but that is not necessarily the case. All governments have tried to deal with this problem in some fashion. The difficulty I am seeing with the current government is that in the main it seems to believe punishment will solve the problem.

The Correctional Investigator, dealing with drug issues, has some decent recommendations the government should be looking at, like the three points that I read, and I will not go through them again.

In direct answer to the hon. member's question, the fact is, yes, there are drugs in prisons no matter how hard Correctional Service of Canada folks try to deal with them. How do they get in? Sometimes we find out and sometimes we do not. I expect there are cases in this day and age, as there was in our time when I was solicitor general, when some people go into prison and get pressured into getting into drugs who were never on them before. That should not happen, but it does.

Let us look at the reality. Let us look at the evidence, and not just dream that punishment will solve the problem, because we need a full-fledged strategy, both inside and outside prisons to deal with the drug problem our country has.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Mr. Speaker, as I have said before, the member for Malpeque is proving to be a great addition to the public safety committee and I respect his expertise on this.

Has he any comment on the fact that the government spent more than $100 million over two years trying to improve interdiction programs and that the head of Correctional Service of Canada, at the end of that two-year period, said there was no effect on the rate of drug use in prisons after spending more than is spent on drug treatment programs on interdiction?

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, what the head of CSC, Don Head, said before committee was, in fact, true. There were $120 million and they really have not had the intended impact. That was what the government and the committee needed to look at. Why did that not have an impact? Are there other things that we should be doing?

This is crazy. Does the government think that just doing urine tests on people being released is going to solve the problem? Come on, this is a much bigger issue than this bumper sticker legislation that the NDP talked about earlier. It is a huge issue. It cannot be dealt with through urine tests. It will require a strategy in order to deal effectively with the problem. The answer should be rehabilitation, how to get these people off drugs and keep them off drugs so they can contribute to society again.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Independent

Maria Mourani Independent Ahuntsic, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech, and I would like to ask him a question.

While reading the bill, I realized that it would simply enshrine the current practice in law.

Inmates must submit to a urine test when they arrive in jail or are allowed an unescorted temporary absence. The same types of tests are done when inmates from some minimum-security prisons go to work or come back from work, when an inmate is granted parole or a statutory release, and during a supervised release in the community.

The bill provides no concrete way to keep drugs from entering the prison system or keep inmates from using drugs, or to help them recover from a drug addiction. It simply confirms what is already in place.

I would like my colleague to comment on that.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, basically, my colleague is right in her analysis. Yes, drug tests can take place now, but this bill, if I am reading it correctly, mandates the requirement on certain offenders, as they go out on release or other measures, that those urine tests take place. It is a little more compulsory.

The thinking behind the minister in this legislation is, “Just because I'm going to get a urine test, then I'm not going to be on drugs”. It is a much bigger problem than that. The minister is dreaming in Technicolor if he thinks the bill will have any real impact on drugs in prisons. We need a much greater strategy than the government is proposing. We should keep in mind that it is already cutting back on the ways to deal with offenders in prisons with drug addiction problems, to get them off in the first place so they stay off.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for his speech, particularly for his reference to the Stonehenge Therapeutic Community. I had the opportunity to pay a visit to the Stonehenge Therapeutic Community in Guelph about three weeks ago.

The House can imagine my surprise when I was met at the front door of this alcohol and correctional treatment facility by the Chief of Police for the City of Guelph, who happens to be the chairman of the board. There are people in the law enforcement community who get that being tough on crime and having a holistic approach are not one.

Even in our province of Prince Edward Island, as recently as last week, there was a very spirited debate in the legislature on the subject of addictions. One MLA talked very passionately about the Portage program in New Brunswick for youth dealing with addiction, as something that is of great import to those who are struggling. We see in our province the closure by the government of the Addictions Research Centre, a facility that could and should contribute to a more holistic approach.

We have heard Bob Rae say that if the only tool we have in our toolbox is a sledgehammer, everything starts to look like a rock.

This is more in the nature of a comment than a question. I certainly appreciate the perspective of the member as the former solicitor general of Canada, with respect to the differences in approach between the governing party, and the more holistic approach that we would prefer.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Charlottetown for the question, especially for his overview of the Stonehenge Therapeutic Community which he visited.

The short answer is that being greeted by the police chief of the community at that kind of an institution where he is also the chairman of the board shows that the real strategy should not just be hard on crime but smart on crime. That is what that kind of holistic strategy requires. It is one where we work with people to solve their problems and not just exercise punishment.

I am pleased that the member had the opportunity to see the facility.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, how exciting.

At the outset, I would like to mention that I will be sharing my time with my friend and colleague, the wonderful member for Laval—Les Îles.

Mr. Speaker, I like the phrase “bumper sticker justice” that my colleague from Gatineau came up with. That is exactly what we have here. I will support the bill because it does clarify an existing practice of the Parole Board, but it is such a narrow bill that it is hard to wrap one's head around it.

I have two concerns with it, and first is the title. We have been talking about the “bumper sticker” title. The bill is not going to make our prisons drug free. I think there has to be some kind of procedural way to prevent having bills named in a way that is clearly not in line with what the bill actually does. I would look to you, Mr. Speaker, for an answer on that.

It is an extremely misleading name for the bill. As my colleague from Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca pointed out earlier, the title is there for political reasons rather than for sound policy.

The second problem I have with the bill is that it has profoundly little impact in the scheme of things. While it does formalize existing practices, it is not actually going to do anything about drugs or addictions in the prison system. It is not exactly a revolutionary idea that we are dealing with here; it is standard practice. Do I think that prisons will be drug free once the bill is passed? No. Do I think we are going to see a reduction in drug use? No. Do I think we are going to see safer prisons or reduced crime? No.

I am not alone in thinking this. First of all, when we look at zero-tolerance drug policy, we have heard my colleagues say this is an aspirational policy rather than an effective policy response to improved prison safety. If we look at the annual report of the Correctional Investigator for 2011-2012, the report said, “Harm reduction measures within a public health and treatment orientation offer a far more promising, cost-effective and sustainable approach to reducing subsequent crime and victimization”.

The bill does nothing to deal with drugs in prisons in real terms and it also does not deal with the myriad of other problems we have in the prison system, such as overcrowding or the fact that we are not engaging in real, substantive rehabilitation anymore.

The Conservative tough-on-crime agenda is not working. It is not tough on crime; it is pretty stupid on crime. If we are going to seriously tackle crime in our communities and safety in prisons, we need to leave behind this outdated tough-on-crime mantra and mentality. We need to look at smart justice and abandoning that old way of thinking, which is about applying simplistic solutions to really complex issues. It has not brought us very far.

We have heard in the House that since 2008 the Conservative government has spent $122 million on tools to try to stop drugs from entering the Canadian prison system. Members have heard it before, but it is worth pointing out again: this is vastly more money than exists for addiction and treatment services, and I would look to my colleague from Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca. I think it is at around half. It is incredible that we are spending that much more money than we are spending on addiction and treatment services.

That $122 million is a lot of money, and it also sounds impressive, so we have to ask ourselves whether it is working. Is it actually doing anything? I do not think so. I think this continues the failed approach to justice.

We are seeing our prison population grow by about 5% a year. By March 2014, the Correctional Investigator estimates that with new legislation there will be over 18,600 inmates in our prisons. This is the highest number in Canadian history. It is unbelievable that we keep adding to the number of people we are putting in prison, when at the same time, looking at Statistics Canada numbers, in 2012 we reported the lowest crime rate in our country since 1972.

The former minister of public safety said that unreported crime was increasing. How do we know that? It is unreported. That is ridiculous. The crime rate and the severity of crime have been falling since 1991, but the number of people incarcerated—I am not talking about people charged or going through diversion programs, but incarcerated—and the length of incarceration are increasing with mandatory minimum sentencing and other government initiatives.

More people in our prisons obviously leads to increased double-bunking, which frankly leads to increased violence and increased gang activity. I know I would be angry if I were double-bunked. In addition, the majority of these people who are incarcerated suffer from mental illness and addiction. To add to that, we have lists of at least several thousand people who are waiting in line for addiction treatment rather than receiving it. We have had cuts to funding for support and treatment programs. It is backward logic.

We need to start looking at a smart justice approach on how we deal with these issues. Putting more people in prison while overcrowding them and cutting funding for harm reduction programs does not make any sense. These measures are damaging for rehabilitating people who have been incarcerated.

An article in The Kingston Whig-Standard in 2012, entitled “Sentenced to suffering”, said, “Addiction to drugs or alcohol, a history of physical or sexual abuse and previous attempts to harm themselves often follow inmates through the doors of a penitentiary”.

Why would we not act on those issues? Why would we not have a bill that does something to deal with these issues versus bumper sticker justice, saying that we are keeping drugs out of prisons when in fact we are not? The reality of the situation is that we can lock people up, but we cannot close the doors on these social issues that will inevitably affect individuals during the time they are incarcerated and afterward if they do not get the treatment and support they need.

The focus is on punishment and not on rehabilitation, which is overall more costly. When we do not focus on rehabilitation, it is also more dangerous for our communities. The key has to be rehabilitation. However, punishment is a much more splashy title than rehabilitation. It helps the Conservatives with their fundraising, and that is really what this is all about, is it not? Why else would they take a practice that is already happening, turn it into a bill that has nothing else in it, and wrap it up in a fuzzy title called “drug-free prisons act” when it will not actually lead to drug-free prisons?

Not one person on the other side could stand up in the House with a straight face and say that the bill would lead to drug-free prisons. That could be why we have seen such total and utter silence from the other side of the House. They are not standing up to defend the bill, to speak to it, to talk about whether it is good or bad. They are silent because they cannot stand up and say that this will lead to drug-free prisons, or even stand up and say that this will lead to slightly less drugs in prisons. It is enshrining a practice that already exists.

It is about scaring Canadians because I think fear is a powerful tool for keeping citizens in line. They are trying to scare us into Conservative submission. They are trying to scare us into donating to their fundraising campaigns.

We saw the same thing with Bill C-2, a bill limiting supervised injection sites. It flies in the face of a recent Supreme Court of Canada case. On that same day we saw a website launch saying “keep heroin out of our backyards”, showing an empty street and a needle and scary black and white photography.

It is not a call to action. It is not a call for the community to come together and solve the problem of intravenous drug use. It is to raise money. That is what this Bill C-12 is all about. That is why we have bumper sticker justice these days. It is a fundraising campaign.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that the member commented that no one has stood up on this side of the House and spoken on the issue with any conviction, or thought or concern. When I was listening to the hon. member, I thought she was auditioning for a soap box opera. She was becoming theatrical in her approach on that.

As a former officer, I do have significant experience. I have five prisons right in my area, and I have been in every one of them. I wonder how much time the hon. member across has spent interviewing inmates in the cells and talking to victims personally. I do not know.

There was a statement from the member for Surrey North, who said, “Given the very high rate of HIV and other diseases...would it be beneficial to have these needles available to them [all prisoners]”? Does the member agree with that statement?

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, I am not afraid to talk about things like a needle exchange program in prisons. I am not afraid to talk about harm reduction models. I am not afraid to talk about these issues at all. However, the member opposite knows that is not our party's position.

If he has spent so much time in the prison system, then he will know that people in the prison system are disproportionately aboriginal Canadians. He will know that the numbers disproportionately have African Canadians in prisons, people with mental illness, people with addictions. It is poor people who are in prisons.

He will also know that his and his party's approach to crime control disproportionately impacts Canada's most marginalized citizens. That is not what we need to be doing.

We need to rehabilitate. We need to have the programs to actually prevent these crimes from happening in the future.

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON

Is the crime rate going down?

Drug-Free Prisons ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS

I just got heckled about whether the crime rate going down. Yes , so why are we putting more people in prison? It makes no sense.