Debates of May 23rd, 2013

Ethics

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, with regard to this report, as I said again to the official opposition, it is an important point to again reiterate that the Senate report did reflect the auditor's findings that there were inappropriate expenses that were charged to taxpayers by Senator Duffy. That was outlined in the report, but indeed, other questions have been raised, which is why the Senate has decided to open up this matter and to re-examine it. It is also why the Senate ethics office and why the Ethics Commissioner, as well, are looking into this matter.

I hope that the member opposite and all members of the House would allow them to do their work and allow them to make a report so that we can, indeed, get all that information.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on February 17, the Prime Minister told the House that Mike Duffy met the resident requirements for the Senate, but he did not tell the people of Canada that the Senate had found that Duffy was ineligible to claim his status in Prince Edward Island. This key passage was removed from the Senate audit by Senator Tkachuk and Senator Stewart Olsen.

Carolyn Stewart Olsen has been the Prime Minister's closest adviser for ten years. She is as close as one can get. Who in the Prime Minister's office made the call to Olsen?

Now that the RCMP is involved, who helped Wright and who helped Stewart Olsen in this cover-up?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, again, that is simply not the case. The Senate report did reflect the findings of the independent auditor. It reflected the findings that there were some inappropriate expenses that were incurred and billed to taxpayers. It also reflected that the money was paid back.

New questions have been raised, which is why the Senate committee is taking another look at it, and that is the appropriate thing to do.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, they need to get their story straight. Last week, they were saying that Nigel Wright was a hero for writing a secret cheque. Meanwhile, the New Democrats were calling in the RCMP. We are talking about two key advisers: one in the Prime Minister's Office; the other sitting on the in-camera review of the Senate.

They say they want to help us get to the bottom of this, so who exactly has the Prime Minister called in to investigate? Who has he spoken to, and what phone records, memos, emails or cheque stubs have been handed over to help this investigation? Now that the RCMP is involved, what have they done to help?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of things, as I said. The Ethics Commissioner is looking into this. The independent Senate ethics office is looking at this as well. The Senate committee is taking another look at this matter as well.

What Canadians expect from the Prime Minister is the leadership he has demonstrated in the House to move forward with Senate reform. That is why—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

We have put legislation before the House for Senate term limits and for Senate elections. We have actually gone further. We have asked the Supreme Court for a reference to tell us how much further we can go and what our mandate can be to move forward on these things.

The NDP is full of rhetoric and self-righteousness. We actually want to move forward and reform the Senate.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's leadership involved putting all his trust in his chief of staff. Carolyn Stewart Olsen, who doctored the Senate report, is the Prime Minister's former director of communications. She worked closely with the Prime Minister's former executive assistant, Ray Novak, his new chief of staff. It is therefore very likely that Mr. Novak is also involved.

The Conservatives are unable to tell the truth in this scandal, but we have just learned that this matter is now in the hands of the RCMP, thanks to the NDP.

I have a very simple question. At any point, did the Prime Minister tell Mr. Wright to take care of Mr. Duffy's mess?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner is looking into this, as is the Senate Ethics Officer. They will certainly consider the questions asked by the opposition. A Senate committee is also looking into this matter and the new questions that have been raised over the past few days. We are certain that the facts will be uncovered and that we are going to move in the right direction. Taxpayers will see real Senate reform.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP is also looking into the matter, thanks to the NDP.

I understand that the Prime Minister may have asked Mr. Wright to deal with the incident involving Mr. Duffy, which means that the Prime Minister might be involved in the cover-up. In any case, he expressed his confidence in Mr. Wright when this scandal went public. Yesterday, the only thing that the Prime Minister—who is off on his own in South America—had to say is that he did not know about the $90,000 cheque.

Has the Prime Minister talked to Nigel Wright about the shenanigans in the Senate since June 13, 2012, when the Auditor General's report was tabled?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, as Mr. Wright himself clearly indicated in the statement he made following his resignation, he acted alone. It was not until later, when it was reported in the media, that the Prime Minister found out what was happening. The Prime Minister was certainly not at all pleased with Mr. Wright's actions.

Mr. Wright resigned and the Prime Minister immediately accepted his resignation because this is not the type of behaviour that we expect from people in public life, and Mr. Wright did not act in the best interests of taxpayers.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know how anyone else feels, but when I see the minister pretending he does not understand the question and beating around the bush instead of giving a straight answer, I get the feeling someone is trying to hide something.

The Conservatives are refusing to launch an independent investigation into the Senate's spending scandal. They will not tell us whether they have talked to the RCMP. They will not tell us whether any documents about legal or illegal activities exist at the PMO.

Could they at least tell us whether someone else in the PMO was aware of what was going on between Mike Duffy and Nigel Wright?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, I strongly disagree with the preamble to the question from my colleague opposite. It is quite clear that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner is fully independent. The Senate Ethics Officer is fully independent. They are perfectly free to do their work and examine those issues. They will prepare their report and submit it. That is coming.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, some 12 senators, the Prime Minister's former counsel and his former chief of staff are involved in a scandal of epic proportions and apparently no one in the PMO knows anything. Really? Nobody believes that Nigel Wright alone dealt with the Senate problems.

Other than Nigel Wright, who else talked to Mike Duffy? Who ordered Carolyn Stewart Olsen to change her report? Who else knew about the dealings between Mike Duffy and Nigel Wright?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, Nigel Wright was the only one involved. That is what he said in his statement and that is why he resigned.

Justice

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, deigning to speak to us from Peru, the Prime Minister said that Nigel Wright wrote a cheque for Senator Duffy for what he called “the right motive”, but the Prime Minister is ignoring that making a payment to a senator in relation to a controversy before the Senate or for the purpose of influencing a senator is an indictable offence under the Parliament of Canada Act.

Can today's stand-in prime minister tell us why the Prime Minister continues to soft-pedal potentially criminal activity?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. colleague wants to quote the Prime Minister, I would encourage him to use the entire quote. Here is the full quote of what the Prime Minister said. He stated:

That’s the right motive, but nevertheless it was obviously not correct for that decision to be made and executed without my knowledge or without public transparency.

That is the full quote. It was irresponsible behaviour on behalf of Nigel Wright. The Prime Minister made that clear. Nigel Wright has resigned, and it was the appropriate thing to do.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the only wrong thing was not telling the Prime Minister or the public. That is what that quote says directly.

Let us go back to Lima. The Prime Minister emphasized that Mr. Wright paid out Senator Duffy with Mr. Wright's own money, as if that somehow absolves Mr. Wright of possible criminal responsibility involving up to a year in jail under the Parliament of Canada Act and 14 years under the Criminal Code.

Does the government front bench agree with the Prime Minister that Mr. Wright was trying to do the right thing when he used his own money so that Mr. Duffy could pretend to be paying back the $90,000 as his own money?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, first things first. As I have said a few times now, the independent Ethics Commissioner is looking into this. Before my hon. colleague starts handing out these kinds of assessments, he might want to wait for that report to come back. That is first.

Second of all, of course we agree with the leadership the Prime Minister has shown in ensuring that taxpayers' money is spent in a responsible way, not only in the Senate but also in the House and also by his staff. What Nigel Wright did was wrong. The Prime Minister was very clear about that. When he offered his resignation, the Prime Minister accepted it immediately, because Canadians need to know that they have a prime minister they can trust with their money, and they do.

Ethics

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the motives were right, but the actions may have been criminal, and the government is patting itself on the back when Canadians want answers. They are fed up with these non-answers, carefully parsed words and doublespeak from Conservatives.

Conservatives are now so desperate that they trust Liberal senators to get to the bottom of this scandal. We have asked for legal documents, but maybe all along we should have been asking for the illegal documents as well.

Did the Prime Minister ask Nigel Wright or Carolyn Stewart Olsen to look into the scandal about Mike Duffy? Enough with the spin; just give us a straight answer, for once.

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

As we have said, Mr. Speaker, no matter what it is that we say, the reality is that the opposition is going to attack.

What is important here for taxpayers is that there is a process in place to examine all these questions, again, not just in 30-second exchanges in the House of Commons. We have the Ethics Commissioner looking into this. There is the Senate ethics office that is looking into this. These are professionals who will do this in an independent way and answer these questions, and we are entirely confident that Canadian taxpayers know that they have a Prime Minister who has put in place a process that will ensure that their tax money is not abused.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, ordinary Canadians do not have influential Conservative friends who can make their problems go away, but Mike Duffy does. Two Conservative senators, David Tkachuk and Carolyn Stewart Olsen, helped Mike Duffy.

Why do they still have the confidence of the Prime Minister if he is so outraged by the situation?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, the Senate report reflected what was found by the independent auditor the Senate hired to examine Mr. Duffy's expenses. That is the report that is on the table.

Because there are other questions, as my colleague has demonstrated, the Senate has begun a new process, which includes Liberal senators. If he has questions, he can consult the committee. There will be a new report on this matter.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, ordinary Canadians do not have influential Conservative friends who can make their problems go away, but Mike Duffy does. I am referring to the Prime Minister's former press secretary, Senator Stewart Olsen. We know that the report on Senator Duffy was whitewashed.

Who ordered Senators Tkachuk and Stewart Olsen to do this? Was it the Prime Minister, Nigel Wright or someone else in the Prime Minister's Office?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, before the Liberals really throw stones, they ought to recognize that they are standing inside of a very large glass house on this subject matter, because it was just two years ago that Liberal members of the Board of Internal Economy, Liberal members of the House, whitewashed and protected three Liberal members of Parliament who took $175,000 in taxpayers' money that was falsely claimed by three Liberal members of Parliament in their housing allowances. These are Liberal members of Parliament who are currently in the House. Before the Liberals start throwing stones at others, Liberals in the House had better start walking the talk.