Debates of April 29th, 2015

Ongoing Situation in Ukraine

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I know that the member has been personally engaged in issues around Ukraine and is very committed to that.

I want to raise one question with him with respect to sanctions which I know has been raised with him before. We all agree that sanctions are important, but I want to make the point that quality matters more than just quantity. Our foreign affairs critic has led the way in calling for tough, coordinated, targeted sanctions. In fact, he was banned from entering Russia because of his call for tough sanctions.

We have demanded that Canada target close friends of President Putin. We think that would be effective. There are a couple of key people who are on the American and European lists, such as Igor Sechin of Rosneft and Vladimir Yakunin of Russian Railways.

I would like the member to clarify something. There was a time when he said we want to be careful with respect to Canadian interests. I presume that he does not mean that we would not sanction people because of the impact on the Canadian economy. Perhaps he could just clarify that.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Chair, I would just say that we have 270 sanctions in place. We have the strongest sanction regime against the Ukrainian and Russian individuals, entities and sectors responsible for the aggression we are seeing from the Putin regime in eastern Ukraine. Rosneft, Igor Sechin's company, is sanctioned, so I do not know why the member keeps bringing this issue up.

I was a little concerned when the member for St. John's East, the NDP defence critic, said that he is scared that we will start a new cold war. It is not us starting a cold war; it is President Putin. It is the Russian aggression. That is the start of a new cold war. We have to remember that Putin is always provoked by weakness. We have to take the correct steps to show that we stand shoulder to shoulder with the people of Ukraine to stop Putin's aggression not only in Ukraine but also the fear that he is going to spread this throughout eastern Europe.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, as I have indicated, I have had the opportunity to receive a considerable amount of feedback as I have asked individuals to provide me some of their thoughts and opinions.

The Liberal Party has been very supportive of the government's initiative in sending in 200 Canadian Forces personnel to provide training and to assist, which I must say has been received quite well by the public. One of the issues that has been brought to my attention is, to what degree the government is considering entering into dialogue with the United States or any of our allies with respect to where we could go from there. Has there been any dialogue with respect to military trucks or anything of that nature? Has the government had any such dialogue?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to remind the member for Winnipeg North that when Angela Merkel was going to meet Putin she made sure to talk to President Obama and the Prime Minister before she entered into those meetings. She very much wants to see that there is this type of strong relationship with Canada, the United States, France and Germany as we move forward. We are talking to all of our NATO allies to look at all of the options to bring about peace, security and respect for Ukraine's sovereignty by all members and make sure that Putin gets out of Ukraine.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Chair, I am a member of Parliament with a large Ukrainian population and therefore, this is of interest to me and my constituents. Being of Czech extraction, I do remember the Prague Spring of 1968 when I was part of the Czech community in Winnipeg. It is something I will never forget.

I want to address quickly some of the comments from the member for St. John's East. He told us to be nuanced. We on this side of the House believe in right and wrong. It is because Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul believed in right and wrong that they brought down the Soviet Union. This idea that we can deal gently with the Soviet Union, or Russia, which is actually the same thing these days, is the reason Lenin called the western left, the western liberals, useful idiots.

I would ask the parliamentary secretary what his view is of what Vladimir Putin's end game is in Europe.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Chair, I do not believe Putin is done yet. He is waiting to see how the west reacts. I believe the stronger our position, the slower he is going to move. If we start to try to appease his position, we are going to see him continue to push on, right down to Crimea, right through Mariupol, which we are already starting to see.

The Minsk peace agreement is starting to fall apart. There is going to be a spring offensive, I fear. That could also lead them to try to connect right over to Odessa and Transnistria.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I just want to say at the outset that I will be sharing my time with the terrific member for Parkdale—High Park.

Tonight, we have heard a lot of debate and comments around the government's recent announcement. That is important. I want to thank my colleagues, in particular my colleague from St. John's East, our defence spokesperson, for laying out some really important questions, and for a good back-and-forth with government to clarify some points.

I want to focus a little on the sanctions regime. It is really quite important that we talk about this. We all have the same goal, and that is to help the people of Ukraine. It is important to keep that in mind. The actions we have seen, the aggression we have seen and the posturing we have seen from Putin and from the Russian Federation are clearly unacceptable.

It is a question of how we respond, and how we can be effective in our response. I want to reassure, from our side of the House, the people of Ukraine that we are there to help the people of Ukraine. We are there to help them become more independent, obviously, to look at strengthening institutions, to strengthen their economy, to make sure the people, particularly in the east who have been most adversely affected by this aggression, are going to get the support that we can provide to them. Of course that means helping the government in general.

One of the tools that we have been very focused on on this side of the House, and I know the government has engaged and has made mention of sanctions, is to talk about sanctions and what they are intended to do, and how sanctions can be used to attain the goal. I am going to lay that out. The goal should be paramount. It is not just sanctions for sanctions' sake. It is not just to say we are doing something. It is to say we have sanctions for a clear delineated goal.

It is interesting that I have to go over our position that we have been reiterating. There has been a little change on the other side, thankfully, on the sanctions that we think are missing from the government's list that are incorporated, frankly, by the EU and by our friends in the States. My colleague from Parkdale—High Park just raised this question, but it bears repeating.

With regard to Igor Sechin, the government did, and I acknowledge, put Rosneft, the oil company, on the list. Just so members know, Rosneft owns about 30% of an oilfield here in Alberta, Canada. Rosneft is now on the sanctioned list by our government, and I want to acknowledge that, but not Sechin.

I would really like to hear from the government why Igor Sechin is not on the sanctions list. As I said, I acknowledge they did put his company on the list, but if we are actually going to be effective and use sanctions as a clear tool to effect change, to have an impact, we need to coordinate it with our allies, obviously, and we have to put individuals like Sechin on the list. First, because it sends a message; and second, because it will actually affect and hurt Sechin, and of course Putin and the people around him.

We have also asked for Rostec, the state-owned defence and industrial firm, to be on the list. The CEO, Chemezov, has been on the list. He is the chairman of basically an arms export agency. He was a leader in the United Russia Party. His company was sanctioned in the U.S. in September 2014. In this case, we sanctioned the individual but not the company. This is an inversion of what we have seen.

What we have in some cases is we are putting companies on the sanctions list and not the individual, and in this case, looking at Rostec, we are putting the individual on the list but not the company. What requires an explanation here is the incoherence of the government's approach, which is not in keeping with that of our allies.

Yakunin has been mentioned before. He is the CEO of the Russian railways. He is a long-time friend of Putin. He was sanctioned by the U.S. in March 2014. He is involved in Russian rail projects, joint venture agreements with Canadian companies.

We have these individuals who are not on the list and some companies that are, and it lacks coherence.

I want to just highlight those individuals and those companies because, in the case of Igor Sechin, we will not find someone who is closer.

I would just end with this. Sanctions will be ineffective unless they target significant economic relations. The U.S. and the EU sanctions are what brought the Russians to the negotiating table. Canada's make-believe sanctions have deprived it of any role in these talks. Russians, no strangers to deception, can recognize a ruse when they see it. That was by Michael Byers, who is a professor of law. He pointed this out. I am pointing it out. We have a problem in our approach with sanctions, and I want to lay that on the table.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Chair, we appreciate that most members in this House are supportive of the government's position and we need to do more in the areas of ensuring we have all the diplomatic levers at our disposal.

There is the potential that the Minsk peace agreement completely falls apart and the possibility that we see increased activity by Russia-backed separatists. We know that it is Russians in there and I am hoping that the member for Ottawa Centre will concur that it is Russian soldiers, Russian equipment, Russian command and control, along with some mercenaries who have been hired in, who are actually doing the push toward Mariupol now, trying to grab more territory in eastern Ukraine.

In light of this, I want the member to shed some light on where he would go from a diplomatic lever standpoint, but also how he feels about Canada's continued support for the Ukrainian armed forces.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would actually strengthen the sanctions, as I just mentioned.

While I am on that, I wanted to add something. I had the opportunity yesterday to meet with Vera Savchenko, who is the sister of Nadiya Savchenko. Nadiya Savchenko is being imprisoned in Russia. She is a Ukrainian woman pilot who was abducted by the Russians and is from eastern Ukraine. The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and international governments have urged her release from this precarious situation she is in. I want to put on the record that we should be putting sanctions directly related to her case on Russian officials. I hope the government takes this seriously.

There are two particular individuals. There is the director of the Federal Security Service, an individual who was Putin's director for the FSS before becoming prime minister and president; and finally, the head of the Investigative Committee of Russia who was involved in the abduction, we believe, of this individual.

That is my response for my colleague. Strengthen the sanctions and call for the immediate release of Nadiya, as I know the government wants to do and has done.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, I am going to operate on the assumption that the New Democrats support the military training mission. There are no ifs or buts about it, but they in fact do support it. If I am wrong in my understanding, please do correct me on it.

I want to pick up on the issue of economic sanctions. The member made reference to Igor Sechin, someone we too agree should be on the list. In addition to that is Vladimir Yakunin.

My point is not necessarily about the number of people who are on the sanction list, but more who is on it. While some nations have already put those two individuals on the list, Canada has not. Could the member comment on that?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I had little time and I am sharing my time so it was something that I intended to do, but I laid out in the five minutes I had our position on sanctions, so I will let my colleague read the record.

In terms of our support for what the government has laid out in support for the troops and training, it was very clear what we wanted to see. It was just very clear goals, ensuring it is the professionalism. The government has acknowledged some concerns around theft or people wanting to profiteer from the mission and ensuring that is not going to happen. We are providing what I think we should be doing and being consistent on it, as official opposition, to say that we understand what the government's intentions are and we will monitor it closely. We want to ensure the goals are established clearly.

That is why we always look forward to debate. Ultimately, debate and a vote is what we normally ask for in these situations. That is exactly what we have done, and we have been consistent on that. My colleague from St. John's East has been crystal clear on our objectives as the official opposition in terms of keeping the government to account and at the same time, of course, supporting the people of Ukraine.

[The Deputy Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Before we resume debate, I just want to ask the assistance of all hon. members. Now that many members are splitting their time in a five minute speech and a five minute questions and comments, could they pay attention to the Chair to end their speech within five minutes? Also, on questions and comments, we were typically getting two sets of questions rather than three. It is obvious many members would like to participate tonight, so if members could be mindful of the clock and ask short questions and give short answers it would allow more of your colleagues to participate in the debate.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Parkdale—High Park.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thought I was going to have 10 minutes, so having 5 minutes I will speak a little quicker.

I am very pleased to take part in the debate on the situation in Ukraine. On behalf of the people of Canada, we are all here tonight united in the determination to not let the situation in Ukraine fall from our agenda and to ensure that we are standing strong in condemnation of Vladimir Putin and his actions, his invasion in Ukraine. We stand firm in support and solidarity with the people of Ukraine.

I am also very pleased to speak on behalf of my constituency of Parkdale—High Park, which has a large number of Ukrainians, many of the more than 1.2 million Ukrainian Canadians in Canada. The cities of Toronto and Kiev are twinned actually, so we have close links to Ukraine. I have really learned from the people in my community the lessons of history. These are people who lived under the former Soviet Union, whose relatives suffered through the Holodomor, the famine genocide. I have had the great privilege of being an election observer four times in Ukraine and of receiving young Ukrainian interns in my office here on Parliament Hill.

In particular, working with the young Ukrainian interns has taught me a lot. It has taught me that young people do not give up hope. They want, I think, what people everywhere want. They want a normal, modern democracy. They want to be governed by the rule of law. They want to have confidence in their judiciary. They want to have democratic freedoms and human rights and to be free of corruption. These young people come here to learn about our government and to learn about a democracy in the hope that they can go back and help build a stronger democracy in their country.

However, what is called the “spirit of Maidan” has really been betrayed. There were people killed there and many more have died since. I was going to recap some of the terrible recent history. However, a couple of years ago who would have thought we would be in the situation we are today with 6,000 dead; more than 1.2 million Ukrainians displaced; thousands of buildings, apartments and factories destroyed; and the Ukrainian economy very perilous right now.

We join together. This is a debate in the spirit of collegiality to say that we stand in unison with the people of Ukraine.

I want to especially give a shout-out to Paul Grod and the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, because it has been the Ukrainian diaspora that has really been vigilant and forceful in demanding accountability and support for Ukraine. I really want to thank them. There have been many long cold vigils and rallies and it has been a pleasure to stand with the community, as many of us here have.

Let me be clear, as my colleagues have been, my colleagues from Ottawa Centre and from St. John's East, that we support the actions of our government in terms of training and professionalization of the military in Ukraine because, really, it did not have much of a military.

We especially want to emphasize the notion of democratic development. Let us keep in mind the spirit of these young interns who come to Canada and help in the building and fostering of a democratic society. That is really what is going to bring long-term stability in Ukraine, having a free and open media, an active and accountable government, and a reputable judiciary. Clearly, they need economic aid.

I have asked several questions this evening, as have my colleagues, about sanctions and the need to really target those sanctions to put the pressure on Putin's key friends and allies and to keep squeezing the Russian economy. I think that is going to continue to be very important.

Let us not forget diplomacy. I know we all want to be immediate and take as much action as we can, but ultimately, we are going to have to find a solution here, so let us not forget about that.

I know my time is up and I want to end with a quote from the Ukrainian minister of finance. She said:

International support can only be effective if the Ukrainian government is also effective and diligent in its efforts to reform the country, fight corruption, improve transparency and accountability, improve the rule of law and create the conditions for the return of economic growth and prosperity.

Surely, ultimately, that is what we all need to be working for.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, I have been listening intently tonight and I hear ideas and concepts of nuance and diplomacy. I think we all agree that we want to do things in as diplomatic a fashion as we can, and as the son of parents who were liberated from the Netherlands, it is actually apropos that we are talking on the celebration of the 70th year of that liberation of my parents.

Things like nuance and diplomacy play a role, but we also need to understand, and I hope the opposition will get on board with us, there is a point in time when we have to call a spade a spade and be willing to go forward in a strong fashion and speak strongly, and do the things that need to be done in order to liberate a country that has been invaded by another country to the point that its freedoms and ability to rule itself have been taken over.

We can talk about all these things, but I would like to hear the other side say that we need to be very direct at certain points in time.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, as the daughter of a World War II veteran who fought in the Battle of the Atlantic and was on a minesweeper, and was on Omaha Beach on D-Day, I also know that there are times when action must be taken.

Perhaps the member came in at the very tail-end of my remarks because I did talk earlier about a whole suite of approaches and actions from sanctions to military support, to democracy building, to diplomacy. There are many aspects to our response and we must be very robust on many fronts.

Earlier my colleague made an important point which was that Canada can and should play a more robust international role in encouraging other countries to fully contribute to the UN trust funds because those moneys are urgently needed and the investment in those funds has really dwindled in 2015. There is a whole menu of activities that needs to be undertaken and I agree with that.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Chair, while the context of this debate is that there is great unanimity around this chamber, the Government of Canada has taken a number of unprecedented steps in aiding Ukraine, none of which has come before Parliament for debate. One was providing the RADARSAT-2 data to Ukraine. The second was sending military support to train in Ukraine. I have also heard it reported that we have a memorandum of understanding with Ukraine which has not been tabled before the House.

I wonder if the member agrees that a take note debate after all decisions are made is not quite what parliamentary democracy requires and particularly the decision to provide RADARSAT-2 data, which was opposed initially by both Foreign Affairs and the Department of National Defence, should have come to this place for debate.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, that is exactly the position that New Democrats have taken in the House. We had many questions about the full nature of the military training support that was offered. We wanted to ask questions in the House prior to the decision being taken and as a parliamentary democracy would normally require, we wanted to have a vote on that initiative. None of that has happened.

The member is quite right that while a take note debate, while important, and we have had a few take note debates on Ukraine, it is coming after the fact that a decision was taken.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Minister of International Trade]

Mr. Chair, I am thankful for the opportunity to participate in this debate, which highlights the role that Canada is playing in supporting the Ukrainian people in their time of crisis.

Since the beginning of the crisis in Ukraine, our Conservative government has been at the forefront of the international community's efforts to implement democratic and economic reforms, and to restore peace and stability in the face of unprovoked Russian aggression. That aggression and Russia's flagrant violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity have led to the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians and the displacement of many more thousands of Ukrainians within their own country.

Ukraine continues to face enormous economic and security challenges, and Canada has remained a steadfast and trusted partner in contributing to the defence of Ukraine and the support of the Ukrainian economy.

Our goal is to help Ukrainians achieve a level of peace and prosperity that we in Canada have for so long enjoyed and the challenge is immense.

In its yearly report on Ukraine, the World Bank cited the state of the global economy, exacerbated by the ongoing crisis in eastern Ukraine, as representing the ongoing major threats to the Ukrainian economy. In 2014, the Ukrainian economy real GDP declined by 7.5%. Its currency lost approximately half of its value against the U.S. dollar, and inflation reached 25%. Complicating the situation is the fact that Ukraine must contribute a very significant portion of its government revenues to defend itself against Russian-sponsored rebels.

The bottom line is that Ukraine needs Canada's help.

On September 17, 2014, during President Poroshenko's first official visit to Canada, he and our Prime Minister announced the signing of Canada's first $200 million low-interest loan to support Ukraine's economic and financial recovery. This past March, our government committed to a second $200 million loan to help stabilize Ukraine's economy and address pressing social needs. These loans, along with financial support from the International Monetary Fund and other key partners, will be crucial in helping Ukraine to achieve financial stability and a return to economic growth.

Since January 2014 Canada has announced more than $575 million in economic and development assistance to Ukraine. It has also provided significant non-lethal support and, more recently, it has agreed to join a mission to train the Ukrainian armed forces.

As Ukraine works to implement its recently signed association agreement with the European Union, we expect that it will also adopt best practices, business norms, and transparency standards that will enhance Ukraine's reputation as a destination for foreign investment and as a preferred trade partner to do business with.

We want to commend President Poroshenko and his government for their commitment to implement significant structural and economic reforms within Ukraine. As president, he has begun to set in place an ambitious timetable to build a more open and transparent market-based economy whose success will be driven by engaging with trading partners like the European Union, Canada and the United States. Canada strongly welcomes these reforms and our government is committed to taking all reasonable steps to support those reforms.

In fact, Canada is already playing a role in those reforms. Ukraine's economic advisory council, which was established by President Poroshenko, is actually headed by a Canadian, Mr. Basil Kalymon of the Richard Ivey School of Business at Western University.

Over the past year, I have had the distinct pleasure of leading two trade and development missions to Kiev, most recently in January. The purpose of these visits was fourfold. First, it underlined that Canada will not abandon Ukraine in its time of need. Second, I was able to meet with a number of my ministerial counterparts to discuss opportunities for Canada to partner to rebuild Ukraine's economy. Third, I was joined by a group of Canadian business people of Ukrainian heritage who were committed to acting as catalysts in supporting and affecting economic reform and transformation in Ukraine. Fourth, I was able to announce an additional $42 million of development assistance. This support would assist Ukrainian dairy and grain farmers to improve their production, quality of their product, storage, and marketing of their product. The funding would also provide technical assistance on anti-corruption, transparency and governance reforms.

Canada has also been providing technical assistance to Ukraine to improve its energy security. This assistance has helped Ukraine develop an energy contingency plan and identify areas where Ukraine can improve its oil and gas regulatory framework which, of course, in turn, would improve the competitiveness and clarity of this sector. A more transparent regulatory and business environment in the energy sector is expected to lead to new opportunities to support Ukranian prosperity, opportunities which Canadian companies would undoubtedly benefit from.

During my two recent visits to Ukraine, I had the opportunity to meet with a number of their ministers. I met with the minister of education. I spoke with the minister of agrarian policy and food. We spoke about energy and coal with the minister responsible for those areas. I interacted with my counterpart, the minister of economic development and trade. I had a chance to have a robust meeting with the new minister of finance for Ukraine. I can tell members that I returned to Canada with the clear confidence that their ministerial team has a sincere commitment to completing the economic and structural reforms required to re-energize Ukraine's economy

Indeed, I was pleased that President Poroshenko has already established a business ombudsman and a national anti-corruption bureau.

Our government is grateful for the work that private sector organizations, such as the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, do in supporting Ukraine in its time of need.

I want to recognize the Canada-Ukraine Chamber of Commerce, which is playing a key role in expanding the business-to-business commercial relationship. Canadian companies such as Black Iron, Iskander Energy, Serinus Energy and Shelton Petroleum are among the many which are anxious to re-engage in the Ukrainian economy.

While our trade relationship is presently quite modest, we know that there is tremendous potential for growth. It is companies such as the ones I just mentioned which will contribute to that growth.

Recognizing this, Ukrainian trade minister Aivaras Abromavicius and I announced this past January that we have restarted free trade negotiations between our two countries. This announcement builds on the commitment made by our countries' two leaders during President Poroshenko's historic visit to Canada last year.

This trade agreement would create new market access opportunities and predictable conditions for businesses, further strengthening our bilateral partnership.

A free trade agreement with Ukraine would also help address many of the non-tariff barriers which presently act as a hindrance to Canadian companies wishing to do business in Ukraine.

I am very pleased that Ukraine was named a priority market under Canada's global markets action plan. That plan, which we refer to as GMAP, is our government's over-arching strategy for creating jobs and economic growth through trade and investment.

Ukraine is a promising market for Canadian exporters in sectors such as agrifood, especially pork, aerospace, and seafood.

Additionally, there are growing opportunities for Canadian companies in the mining, information technologies, renewable energy, and oil and gas sectors.

Canadians understand that the Ukrainian people face enormous economic and security challenges. Our government has assured Ukraine that Canada will remain a steadfast ally, partner, and trusted friend, as the Ukrainian people successfully meet those challenges.

One thing I can assure members of is that Canada will never abandon Ukraine. As our Prime Minister has said:

Whatever difficulties may lie ahead, whatever actions are taken by those who threaten Ukraine's freedom, Ukraine will never be alone because Ukraine can count on Canada.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I had the privilege of participating in the foreign affairs delegation that travelled to Ukraine in 2012 to look into ongoing issues with the erosion of the rule of law and democracy. While we were there, we met with many panels of people. One of the panels was very interesting and goes toward the minister's portfolio.

We met with the American Chamber of Commerce, the Canada-Ukraine Chamber of Commerce, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, and the European Business Association. Those business advisers said to us at that time that unless we had deep pockets, we should be very careful of investing in Ukraine. Since that time, there has been, essentially, a revolution in Ukraine. The people are grateful. They feel that they now have a better chance of having control over their government, but they remain very concerned about continuing corruption and the lack of a flow of benefits to the people of Ukraine as opposed to their flow to the oligarchs

In a meeting just this week that Canada participated in with the donors, the Europeans and Americans again expressed concern that the reforms on the rule of law and anti-corruption are not moving as rapidly as they had hoped.

In my experience in work with Canadian aid in both Indonesia and Bangladesh, Canada provided experts on an ongoing basis and did not have them just parachute in for a week. Is the minister's department giving consideration to actually offering up some financial and anti-corruption experts to help Ukraine over the long term develop these mechanisms to protect both the people and investors?

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for her interest in Ukraine. I sense that there is a consensus in the House that Ukraine does need Canada's support.

With respect to transparency and anti-corruption measures, clearly, that is a significant challenge Ukraine faces. Much of our engagement with Ukraine, especially on a minister-to-minister basis, has been on addressing our concerns about governance and corruption.

I can tell the member that I was sincere in my comments when I said that I do believe that the ministerial team President Poroshenko has put together has a sincere commitment to addressing those issues. It is going to be a long road. Many of the challenges within Ukraine are endemic. We have already, of course, provided expert advice to Ukraine. That will be ongoing.

We have also reminded the government of Ukraine that Canada has a trade and development facility under which we can enhance their ability to access foreign markets and make their small and medium-sized enterprises aware of export opportunities within Canada. They also are able to assist Ukraine with addressing governance challenges within the country.

We are working very hard to try to bring all of these things together. It is going to be a long journey, but I am confident that President Poroshenko and his team have really set themselves on a course that will move Ukraine toward prosperity and peace.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, it was quite a privilege for Canada to have President Poroshenko address this House. He talked about the importance of trying to get the free trade agreement. It is obviously a very high priority for the Ukraine government.

My question is related to that, given that this is the minister who leads the Canadian government on the issue of trade agreements. Can he provide us anything further on whether the government has a strategic time frame as to when it would see some form of agreement in principle? We have been talking about the potential of a trade agreement with Ukraine for a couple of years now. Could he provide some thoughts on what he would like to see personally in terms of an agreement and a time frame?

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for that question, which focuses on Canada's trade relationship with Ukraine.

We have completed a number of rounds of negotiations with Ukraine. A time frame would be very difficult to set, if not impossible, understanding that the capacity of Ukraine's government to engage in a timely way in things such as trade negotiations will be very challenging.

That said, we have actually, on our side, made significant efforts to assist Ukraine in continuing to prepare themselves to conclude negotiations. As I mentioned earlier, there is a trade and development facility Ukraine actually can draw on, which would assist them with the capacity restraints they have, as they negotiate a trade agreement with Canada.

Understand that the standard we always set when we negotiate trade agreements is that it has to be a trade agreement that reflects Canadian interests, that is in the national interest. However, in Ukraine's case, we also have additional motives, which are to assist Ukraine in restoring its economy to health. That will be a long-term project for the Ukrainian people and the Ukrainian government and for us as Canadian partners.

We believe that liberalizing trade, opening up trade between our two countries, is one measure we can take to enhance the prospect of Ukraine benefiting from the Canada-Ukraine relationship.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the Minister of International Trade for his very good work with the people of Ukraine.

I am proud this evening to stand in support of Ukraine. I am very proud of the position our government has taken in supporting Ukraine and the Ukrainian people's desire to pursue freedom, sovereignty, and democracy.

I come from a riding that is very rich in Ukrainian history. I have many communities that have strong Ukrainian ethnicity and are very closely tied to the Ukrainian people. Many of them have friends and relatives still in Ukraine.

I am also the grandson of Mennonite immigrants who in the early 1900s fled Ukraine during a time of civil unrest and found their home here in Canada. I am so grateful that Canada accepted by grandparents on both sides, and I have a strong attachment to the people of Ukraine.

I spoke with a gentleman this past week who had been in Ukraine the previous week, and upon people there learning that he was Canadian, they expressed their sincere appreciation and thankfulness for the support Canada has given to Ukraine.

In particular, there were three things they were thankful for: our prayers, which they appreciated; our support on the international stage; and our supplying their troops with flak jackets. To quote directly what one of the individuals said:

We provide our troops with food and clothing to keep them warm and fed, but you Canadians supply them with body armour, which makes sure that our sons and husbands come home at night.

The Ukrainian people are very appreciative and thankful for the support we have shown them so far, and I am just so proud that our Prime Minister has expressed unequivocal support for the people of Ukraine.

I am just wondering if the minister could expand a little bit further on how important it will be to provide continued economic support.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his comments, because he and I share a common heritage. My mother was actually born about 30 miles from the eastern Ukraine border, so I understand his passion for supporting Ukraine.

Economic support is as important as the support we are providing in terms of non lethal military assistance and the training we have recently agreed to undertake in Ukraine.

The economic dimension of this relationship between Canada and Ukraine cannot be underestimated. We have somewhere in the order of 1.2 million Canadians of Ukrainian descent, many of whom are business people and many of whom are prepared to engage economically with Ukraine.

When I was there on my two trade missions, I was accompanied by quite a number of Canadian companies whose owners had Ukrainian heritage, and they were impressing upon us the importance of getting a trade agreement in place, of removing some of the trade barriers, and of removing some of the investment barriers and the lack of transparency in the economy.

I am absolutely confident that if we do this right, Canada can play a major role in allowing Ukraine's economy to recover.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, before I begin, I would like to say that I will be sharing my time with my hon. colleague from Edmonton—Strathcona.

The debate we are having in the House tonight is important, and I am glad that so many MPs from all parties want to participate. The situation in Ukraine is deeply worrisome, and everyone has an opinion on it, including those of us here in the House and all Canadians.

Russia's illegitimate military intervention in Crimea and the ensuing violence, which is still ongoing, shocked the international community. According to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, more than 6,000 people have been killed in eastern Ukraine and over 15,000 more have been injured. People in the region are having a harder and harder time getting water and electricity, and the fighting has been going on intermittently despite ceasefires between the two parties.

My NDP colleagues and I supported and continue to support Canada's efforts to help the Ukrainian people, including our involvement in NATO'S Operation Reassurance. We stand with the Ukrainian people and we will continue to do so. We have a duty to help them. In addition to the non-lethal military support already provided by Canada, we can assist Ukraine in other ways, such as contributing to the country's democratic development or its economic stability.

I do not have much time today, but my colleagues from Laurier—Sainte-Marie and Ottawa Centre, in particular, have outlined various measures that Canada could take to help the Ukrainian people.

I would like to come back to the announcement that was made a few weeks ago by the Minister of National Defence. He announced the deployment of 200 Canadian military members to train the Ukrainian armed forces until March 2017. We know that there are some issues with the Ukrainian military at present. It can and must play a key role in stabilizing the region. Unfortunately, it continues to have difficulty modernizing and becoming more professional. Canada can certainly help train Ukrainian troops. Quite honestly, the intentions behind the deployment that was recently announced are commendable.

However, many questions still remain about exactly what our Canadians troops will be doing on the ground. There was a press conference to announce the whole thing, and tonight we are having a take note debate. However, we are getting very few additional details on the real mandate that Canadians troops will have on the ground in Ukraine.

Canadians and parliamentarians alike deserve more information on the details of the mission. This is a democracy, and transparency is important. There should be a debate in House.

My riding, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, is home to CFB Valcartier. The soldiers who are part of 5 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group are currently taking part in the exercise MAPLE RESOLVE. They will be in a period of high operational readiness as of July 1. Being in a state of high operational readiness means that the soldiers who are currently at Valcartier could be deployed to Ukraine in the coming months, once the group from Petawawa completes its deployment.

With that in mind, it is crucial that the soldiers in my riding and their families be kept informed of the government's intentions and of the real mandate that our troops will be assigned.

In addition to the take note debate we are having today, we need to have a formal debate and a vote in the House. For now, the government has made a unilateral decision without consulting parliamentarians from all the parties. That is unfortunate. Everyone in the House agrees that we must help Ukraine. Canada has a role to play and we can certainly contribute to democratizing the country, stabilizing its economy, and training its troops. However, we should at least debate this in the House. It is part of our responsibility as parliamentarians. Unfortunately, that was overlooked yet again. Although I appreciate the debate we are having this evening, we have to do more. We are a democracy. It is important for the government to give us the opportunity to hold a formal debate on the issue and formally vote on it in the House.