Debates of April 29th, 2015

Ongoing Situation in Ukraine

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Minister of National Defence and Minister for Multiculturalism]

Mr. Chair, I am a bit confused.

First, I thank the hon. member for taking part in the debate. However, after I announced our operation to train Ukrainian forces, the NDP foreign affairs critic called for a debate in the House. That is why the government moved this motion and we are having this debate this evening. So far—I have been here for two or three hours now—I have not heard the NDP take a clear position on the training operation in Ukraine that the government announced.

I have a simple question for the hon. member. Does she support the operation to train Ukrainian forces recently announced by the government?

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the minister for his question.

I was also here for most of the speeches given in tonight's take note debate and I did not hear any details from the government about the real mandate our troops will have on the ground.

In order to take a meaningful position, we must be well informed. We need transparency and information. The government has to be prepared to answer our questions. That is not the case right now. In fact, the NDP is asking for an official debate in the House, not an extremely informal take note debate like the one we are having tonight, so that we can make our position known in an official vote. That is what we are asking for from the government, and we still have not received an answer.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, I think this is an appropriate question to ask in seeking clarification, because I am not convinced the New Democrats support this mission.

What I have heard speaker after speaker say is that the NDP does not see clear goals. The members are concerned about the theft of materials, what the troops will be doing and they do not know the details.

Based on the answer the member just provided the Minister of National Defence, could she be concise on the NDP's position? If there were a vote on it today, if this was a vote as opposed to the type of debate we have right now, how would she vote? Would she vote in favour of what has been done in terms of military advisers going to Ukraine?

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my Liberal colleague for his question.

I find it a rather strange that he, of all people, thinks we are a bit confused. When the Liberals tried to take a position on Canada's mission in Iraq and the extension of the mission in Syria, it was very confusing. There was a lot of flip-flopping. That is what happened.

What we asked for in the House is very clear. We want detailed information so that we can make an informed decision and take a stand in a formal vote in the House. We have asked the government to make that happen multiple times. Unlike the Liberals, the NDP likes to be informed and to have the details before making decisions.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chair, I am even more confused because the NDP demanded a debate and we are having a debate.

The member wants more information. The NDP has not asked a single question in question period in the two weeks since the training announcement was made. It has not written me a letter asking for information. Tonight when I spoke, the NDP members did not ask me for any details of the training operation. They asked about logistics in the Ukrainian military and the provision of supplies. They have not asked any detailed or substantive questions about the training operation.

We have provided all the information. What is actually going on here? Let us call a spade a spade. The NDP does not want to take a position, because most Canadians support this training operation. The NDP's ideological base cannot tolerate the notion of Canadian troops operating in any capacity overseas. I think that is what is really happening.

Let us just try to pull this out a little. What is the NDP position? If the NDP members actually have questions to ask, why do they not ask them in question period? Why have they not been brought forward in an opposition supply day to debate and put it to a vote? Why have they not written me a letter, asking any of those questions? I just do not think it is credible.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think the minister must not be paying much attention in question period, because even though we do ask questions, we never get any clear answers from the government. What we are asking for here is a formal debate in the House, not a take note debate after the decision has been made.

I also think the minister's memory must be failing him, because immediately after his speech, I asked him how the government was going to keep Canadians and parliamentarians informed of the details, objectives and progress of the mission. He did not answer me.

Before I answer his question, I would like an answer to mine.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I find it rather peculiar in this debate that the Minister of National Defence is now interjecting and asking why the NDP is not simply focusing its discussion on military aid, yet his colleagues, including the Minister of International Trade, stood and gave a lengthy speech about the need for Canada's support in trade with Ukraine. There has been discussion about sanctions.

The entire western world understands that in the situation Ukraine faces, it is important that we use every measure at our disposal to help Ukraine to move forward, to fight back against the aggression that it faces from its neighbour in Russia, and to fight against the perils in its economy right now. Its democracy has flailed under previous administrations. There are so many pressures that Ukraine faces, and I understand that since this debate began, we have actually had a very convivial dialogue about this.

I have a very strong Ukrainian Canadian constituency in Alberta with which I commune. First and foremost, I thank the Ukrainian Canadian diaspora. The Ukrainian Canadian community in my riding has stepped forward and raised tens of thousands of dollars in support of Ukrainians, after the turmoil, deaths and injuries in the Maidan, to support medical aid and the building of democracy.

I want to tip to my hat to the Ukrainian Canadian Congress for its continued relentless efforts to seek the support of Canadians and the Canadian government to build the nation. I also want to thank the Ukrainian Canadian Congress for the establishment of the Canada Ukraine Foundation, through which all of us can contribute to the building of Ukraine.

I want to commend the Canadian government, not simply for stepping forward and providing military training aid. The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration was in Kiev, though I have not heard the Minister of National Defence mention that or thank him. He travelled to Kiev and promised additional aid. This additional aid is exactly in the direction that one of my colleagues mentioned tonight, which is building civil society and its ability to hold its government accountable. That is very important. I am also delighted to hear that the FCM will help to deliver that. It has a lot of experience working with civil society.

Many of us have spoken tonight about the clear strategy on sanctioning. I am grateful that the government has been imposing sanctions. Clearly, there are some important people who have been left out, and we are simply asking questions about why those people, in particula, are being left out.

Obviously, we can play a major, ongoing role in diplomacy. We have a long history of diplomacy. Something that was brought to my attention tonight was very interesting. The Elders, which was established by Nelson Mandela in 2007, is travelling to Russia to meet with Putin to try to get him to move more toward peace. This includes Kofi Annan, Lakhdar Brahimi, the former foreign minister of Algeria, Jimmy Carter, Gro Harlem Brundtland, and Ernesto Zedillo, the former president of Mexico. Many nations around the world are stepping up to the plate and concentrating efforts to support Ukraine.

One area that I have not heard the government mention, and that actually came forward in the natural resources committee in a full day review, is how we help Ukraine as it is suffering with its problems with energy? Some of the conditions imposed by the IMF are telling it that it has to stop the subsidies on energy. I have been conversing, through one of my former interns, with the officials in Ukraine who are looking for expertise on energy efficiency. That is an area where Canada has a lot of expertise, and I hope the government will move forward, turn to our experts and send them over.

The million dollar question is what happens when the troops move toward Kharkiv or Mariupol? Let us hope that it does not happen. Let us hope that all of the efforts on the front by many nations supporting Ukraine will prevent that from happening.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, there have been some comments tonight that we have not given specific information on what is going in the training mission over there. I think that we have, a number of times, and I would like to list them and ask my colleague a question.

We are doing anti-IED training; military police training; logistics management training; individual and unit tactical training; medical training, particularly with the experience we have gained in the years in Afghanistan; and flight safety training.

Those are the six things, grosso modo, that we are doing there. Would my colleague agree that the NDP could support those mission objectives?

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I know the hon. member has a strong military background and that is the area in which he is most interested. From my perspective, I have worked many years in foreign aid and that is where my expertise lies. These questions probably belong more to our defence critics.

However, that is the kind of aid that we would like to provide to a lot of countries, but that is not the question before us. The question is: What is the framework for providing that aid, what are the safeguards and so forth? I do not think that it is us who have raised those questions. Others have put those questions to us and we simply put them forward to the government.

One of the things we could do, in the same way that we stepped forward to call for the freedom of Yulia Tymoshenko, is for the government to be upfront and centre to defend Nadiya Savchenko. She is a current hero of Ukraine, and I would like to hear more talk about her and what our strategy will be to try free Nadiya.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Chair, despite the fact that it is clear that Putin's aggression is illegal, there are complexities to this issue that former USSR leader, Mikhail Gorbachev, brought up in terms of the historical context, the rapid breakup of the former Soviet Union, the failure of perestroika, and his call that we not use rhetoric that fans flames of disunity and disharmony. Obviously, Ukraine and Russian peoples have much in common and there should be, as Gorbachev had called for, efforts to find a peace that is sustainable for both peoples.

Is there a role for Canada can play? I am supportive of everything we can do to help the people of Ukraine. I support sanctions, but I am also concerned that we have placed Canadian troops into this situation without a discussion in Parliament. I know I may be a very small minority on this point, but I am concerned. I would rather see us pursue whatever we can do to build the bridges, as I see German leader, Angela Merkel, attempting to do.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, this is the moment in time when the world is meeting at the UN moving toward nuclear disarmament. That is where we could be putting a lot more effort. I know the current government is not a particular fan of the UN, but we have to remember that there are two major mechanisms we work through, one is the UN and one is NATO.

I note that this military mission, even in training, is not endorsed by NATO. I remain a little puzzled on how exactly we are rationalizing the sending of troops and not seeking the support of Parliament.

Frankly, from my standpoint, I can remember hearing the voices of the Ukrainians on the eastern border with Russia, saying that they did not want Ukrainian or Russian troops in their community because they would be at risk.

Our responsibility is to try to reduce that risk and to try to keep front and centre those families that are being put at risk. Therefore, we need to be exercising every conceivable diplomatic measure we can so it does not move toward a larger scale war.

It is our obligation to stand with other nations and ensure that Minsk II is actually obeyed.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Development]

Mr. Chair, I am splitting my time with the member for Etobicoke Centre.

I am thankful for the opportunity to participate in this debate. I have heard many people talk tonight about helping Ukraine. I am pleased to inform the House that Canada is doing a great deal to help Ukraine from a humanitarian situation, from a development perspective, and also with what we are doing to help strengthen its military. I want to focus my remarks today on Canada's development assistance program and its role in responding to Ukraine's democratic and economic crisis.

Last year's revolution was about the desire of Ukrainians to live in a prosperous, democratic, independent European country. Given the current conflict in eastern Ukraine and the country's general economic and democratic fragility, there is quite obviously still a very long way to go. Progress is coming and this is thanks in large part to a new generation of young reformers in government and because of a re-energized civil society that continues to work in the best interests of the Ukrainian people.

Canada's own contributions in Ukraine are helping too. As our Prime Minister has announced, Canada has expedited and prioritized new bilateral development assistance programming to support Ukraine, more than doubling the development assistance budget over traditional levels.

Since January 2014, Canada has committed more than $578 million in funding to assist Ukraine. Of this, $139 million is for increased bilateral development assistance, or more specifically, to advance democracy and the rule of law, and to stimulate sustainable economic growth. Since January 2014, Canada has announced over $43 million for projects to advance democracy and the rule of law.

Through trusted partners, we have sent observers to ensure free and fair elections. Canadian technical assistance improves elections regulations, trains elections officials, ensures safety at voting stations, and raises voter rights awareness. There were two national elections in Ukraine last year and Canada played a leadership role in coordinating international assistance and election monitoring. This year, our partners will continue to work for longer term change in Ukraine's democratic culture. They will do this by training political parties to better respond to citizens' issues and by developing mechanisms for public engagement. As Ukraine begins to decentralize, next October's local elections will be another important step forward in the country's democratic transition.

Canadian contributions in Ukraine also include supporting efforts for an independent free media and a strong civil society. Free access to information and ideas lets citizens form educated opinions based on facts, allowing for constructive and effective participation in the democratic decision-making process. Freedom of expression, information and media are therefore as important for individual dignity as they are for accountability and democracy. Canada is pleased to support development projects that improve these basic rights in Ukraine.

In addition, Canada supports Ukrainian cities and regional administrations in economic planning and active and effective citizen engagement. As resources and authority continue to be decentralized, local governments are facing greater demands. Given Canada's strong municipal management expertise, we have spent the past several years sharing our knowledge with Ukrainian cities. The country's 2015 budget has increased funding for local governments, and a constitutional reform to entrench decentralization is planned. We will continue to draw on Canadian and regional experiences, including Polish expertise, to assist local governments to manage new functions, resources, and to ensure oversight and accountability.

Mr. Chair, I see that you have given me the sign that I have very little time left. I just want to emphasize that Ukraine is a top priority for Canada and it is one of the 25 countries of focus for development assistance. Canada is among the strongest international supporters of Ukraine's efforts to restore economic stability and implement democratic and economic reforms.

We have condemned in the strongest terms Russia's aggressive actions in Ukraine, and we continue to be at the forefront of the international community's response to Russia's aggression. We are monitoring the situation very closely and we will continue to deliver assistance and appropriate aid.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, there has been a great deal of concern about the amount of Russian propaganda that is out there. If we listen to the propaganda we hear all sorts of untruths, such as the people who are causing the civil unrest in eastern Ukraine.

The minister made reference to the importance of development projects. I wonder if she would give us a sense of what she would like to see in terms of how we could play a role in countering the Russian propaganda machine that has proven to be fairly effective in formulating opinions that are just not true. An example of that would be that it is Russian military personnel causing all of the unrest, in the vast majority, in the eastern part of Ukraine.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Mr. Chair, I was privileged to be part of the foreign affairs committee that went to Ukraine two years ago. When we were in Kharkiv, we met with a small group of people who were part of the free media. They too were telling us how difficult it was for the free media to have any effect or influence in Ukraine, simply because they did not have enough private sector advertisements to keep the free media functional. I am pleased to tell the House that while I was there, I wrote a personal cheque for $200 to give to this one gentleman who was running his own radio station. I said to him, “I am buying advertising from you. This is a fair exchange of goods and I don't care if the only thing you say is that Lois Brown supports free and fair elections.” However many times $200 would buy, I wanted him to put that advertisement on the radio. I am pleased to say I have supported the free and independent media in Kharkiv and certainly hope that it has the opportunity to continue.

We will continue to do that with our development dollars. We know how important civil society is to the growth of a free and democratic society.

[The Chair, NDP, Joe Comartin]

I would point out to members that the rules that apply here are similar to the rules that apply in the House. One cannot use the name of a member, including one's own name in speeches in the House.

Questions and comments. The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the hon. member for running ads that said that the hon. parliamentary secretary supports free democratic elections.

I can probe the question of the budget for humanitarian assistance in Canada. We just received the budget. It does not give us a total for what development assistance is available in 2015. We have a lot of pressures. I know my hon. colleague takes them to heart and works very hard on them, but we have a huge humanitarian crisis right now of Syrian refugees, which is pressed up against Jordan, Lebanon and also Turkey, with overflowing refugee camps that are under-resourced. We obviously have a real concern for the people of Ukraine. We have our traditional partnerships around the world and the priority on maternal and child care.

From what I have been able to find out, it looks as if the budget for overseas development assistance was cut by $670 million two years ago and it looks as though the amount is frozen. Are there more aid dollars coming? Is there an increase that was not mentioned in the 2015 budget? How are we going to meet all these commitments?

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Mr. Chair, what we do know about aid is that at the conference that is coming up in Addis Ababa in July, the ask is going to be for some $135 billion. We know there is never going to be enough money in any aid budget. It is time that we did aid differently.

We are looking at some new financing mechanisms to ensure we get private sector dollars in there as well. With our Minister of International Development, Canada has been at the forefront of these initiatives, working with the World Economic Forum and most recently there is the announcement that was made in Washington.

Canadians continue to be exceedingly generous people. We just made the announcement on Monday about a matching fund for the Nepal emergency that is going on. For every dollar that is contributed by an individual Canadian, the Canadian government is going to match that dollar for dollar. I encourage people to consider giving generously. Organizations like Save the Children, World Vision, the World Food Programme, Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, Médecins Sans Frontières and Red Cross are all organizations that are accepting donations. We know that Canadians are exceedingly generous people, and they want to know that their aid dollars are being spent effectively.

The results we have seen from the money that we have put into our maternal, newborn and child health initiative have been nothing short of miraculous. The lives of some 280,000 moms have been saved and millions and millions of children are now reaching their fifth birthday.

It is about accountability. It is about effectiveness. We are going to continue to spend the dollars appropriately and continue to get those kinds of results.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am honoured to take part in this very important debate in support of Ukraine tonight.

I would like to begin by praising the Ukrainian Canadian diaspora for their support and commitment to Ukraine. That is all 1.2 million Canadians of Ukrainian heritage and the organizations that organize this community like the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, League of Ukrainian Canadians, League of Ukrainian Canadian Women, Canada Ukraine Foundation and the Canada-Ukraine Chamber of Commerce and so many others. They have been absolutely incredible and I thank them all so sincerely for their efforts and their leadership.

There is a new medical mission leaving this week on a diaspora-led mission and recently as well Canada has sent 1,100 tactical medical units and 238 sets of state-of-the-art night vision goggles to Ukraine's army.

I also praise Canadians in Ukraine like Lenna Koszarny and others who in collaboration with Canada's Ambassador to Ukraine, Roman Waschuk, have ensured that all materiel has been sent, received and delivered accordingly. Well done for them.

Whether it takes months, years or decades, Crimea will return to its rightful place in Ukraine. Canada will never recognize the illegal Russian occupation of any Ukrainian territory.

Mr. Putin must also stop his campaign to undermine all of his neighbours in the Baltic states and in the west with his very dangerous information war waged against all of us and particularly directed at the Russian people themselves as he drifts closer and closer to Russia's totalitarian past. By doing so, Putin perceives enemies and threats where none existed and now continues to threaten global peace and security.

The Russian people have big hearts and big souls. Russians are generous and kind people who are being misdirected by their own leadership. They are being misdirected by Putin and his oligarch facilitators who continue to prosper despite a failing economy while his weapons expansion continues and the Russian people increasingly suffer and go without. His war upon his own people is intended to methodically eliminate the democracy that they very much deserve after the long dark years of communism.

I am very proud of the role Canada is playing to promote peace and stability in Eastern Europe today and to bring stabilization to Ukraine so the Ukrainian people can chose their own path, democratically, in a free and prosperous Ukrainian nation.

Unprecedented in the post-Cold War era, Russia's aggression against Ukraine has highlighted the broader importance of the transatlantic security relationship and that of NATO, in particular. As a founding member of NATO, Canada has a long-standing commitment to promoting security in Central and Eastern Europe. This commitment was evidenced by our swift response to the current crisis. In fact, the Government of Canada was among the first to respond to NATO's call for contributions to the alliance's immediate assurance measures.

As ever, the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces answered the call and I am proud to have served alongside them during my time in the military.

Early on, Canada deployed soldiers to Poland and Eastern and Central Europe as part of Operation Reassurance. Over the last 12 months, our soldiers have taken part in numerous training exercises aimed at building the capacity of our allies.

An important contribution to NATO's persistent presence in the region, Canada has taken on a leadership role in training exercises designed to develop and enhance interoperability, readiness, joint operations capability and multinational responses to potential crises.

Indeed, since the initial deployment last year, over 500 Canadian Armed Forces members have participated in exercises in Poland, Germany, Lithuania and Latvia and more will continue to. There are presently approximately 220 soldiers stationed in Drawsko Pomorskie and soon there will be approximately 200 Canadian soldiers in Ukraine helping to develop capacity in Ukraine's army. That was recently announced by Canada's Minister of National Defence and we thank him for that announcement.

Their deployment not only represents a demonstration of our ongoing commitment to NATO, but also of the readiness and professionalism of the Canadian Armed Forces. The leadership role undertaken by Canadian Armed Forces at training exercises during Operation Reassurance is a testament to our determination to increase this interoperability.

Canada is a proud ally and we will work very closely with our allies in NATO and in Ukraine. Canada will always stand shoulder to shoulder with the people of Ukraine.

This Prime Minister and this government and our ministers will make sure of it.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, I know that for medical reasons the member for Toronto Centre is not able to be with us. I know this has been a very important issue for her and I would like to put a question to the member. It is related to the very important world banking industry. I would like to get a sense from the member of what his thoughts are.

There have been suggestions that there needs to be some dialogue. To what degree could he provide the House with whether the government has had any dialogue on the issue of the possibility of banning Russia from the SWIFT banking system? I recognize the important role Canada has to play in leadership and looking at consensus. Is this one of the things the government is having discussions on?

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, as the member knows, the SWIFT system is a private entity based in Belgium. We talk to all of our allies, whether it is financial, NATO or in other fields, and we continually have that dialogue. We also have to move in concert with the rest of our allies as well as taking into account the SWIFT system's independent nature.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, I know my colleague from Etobicoke Centre is a bit of a historian. He talked about some of the countries in the region, sort of within Putin's vision. In the 1930s, we heard about protecting the German nationals in Sudetenland, Poland, Austria and other places, and we know what happened there.

Do the things we hear today about protecting the ethnic Russians in Moldova, Georgia, Estonia or a number of other places in that region give my colleague concern about having seen this movie before?

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thank the hon. member for his many long years of service as a fighter pilot in the Royal Canadian Air Force. I thank him very much for that.

I have seen this movie before. My parents, in fact, have seen this movie before. My father could tell us about this movie from the inside of a gulag. This is something that is recurring in history. Vladimir Putin is also a historian. He studies Stalin, he understands Stalin, and he is refining his methods. He is drifting very quickly back to Russia's totalitarian communist past. This should be disturbing to us all.

This is somebody who is pressing our borders again, since the Cold War, be it the overflights over our Arctic, the overflights over Baltic space, the overflights over NATO members. It is a violation and something that is provocative and threatening global peace and security where it never had to be or should have been.

Vladimir Putin has personal ambitions to recreate an empire of his own and we are not going to allow him to do that. Canada and its allies are going to stand firm in the face of Mr. Putin and all of us are going to enjoy the freedom, democracy, human rights and rule of law that all of our nations have earned over 70-plus years of having to deal with the communist system.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Chair, I would like to have my colleague quickly talk about the value of training. As a former colonel in the Canadian Armed Forces, knowing what it is like to be in the infantry and the dangers associated with the equipment that is used, there have been occasions where people have shot themselves in the foot, self-inflicted injuries. We have heard about this happening in Ukraine, because of the volunteers and recent recruits, as it set up this brand new army in the last year.

Could the member speak to the value of what we are going to be doing there as a training mission?

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my hon. friend for all of his work on Ukraine, for the multiple election missions we put on, for the multiple times he has personally delivered non-lethal military aid to Ukraine. I thank him for all of that on behalf of Canada and on behalf of the Ukrainian people.

An army needs to constantly train. Canada has learned that, even throughout the years of Afghanistan. Every time we sent a new mission to Afghanistan, there was an 18-month cycle of training, deployment and returning. Sometimes they went as long as two years.

The fundamentals of any army have to be reinforced no matter how good it is. It is like an athlete, it needs to continue to train and reinforce those fundamentals. It becomes muscle memory. It becomes instinct. That is what the Ukrainian forces need from us. We have that expertise. We have expertise from the many years in Afghanistan and other missions, Bosnia and what we are learning across the globe right now as Canada works very hard to achieve peace and stability in other places.

The Ukrainian forces need that reinforcement. I know their people are battle-hardened, however, they need to understand the fundamentals of training, they need to be able to train themselves eventually. As a former trainer on many courses myself, it is important that all of this is reinforced and that we provide the fundamentals to the Ukrainian armed forces so that they can carry on forward themselves in future years, keeping their army strong and well-trained.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, it is a privilege to stand here today to share some thoughts on what is a very important issue, not only here in Canada but around the world, as the world is very much focused on what is happening in Ukraine.

To make it very clear, we in the Liberal Party recognize the sovereignty of Ukraine. The western world and beyond have seen this horrible situation arise because of one leader from Russia, Putin, who has caused so much damage and destruction in an area of the world where there is an immense amount of pride and a desire to see Ukraine grow. The setback for this great nation is most unfortunate and very hard to describe.

When we look at where we are today and how it evolved, I would suggest that the real heroes are the people of Ukraine who took note of what was taking place, not that long ago, in terms of the European Union and the the trade association that was being rejected by the former president.

We witnessed the people of Ukraine filling the streets, in particular the Maidan, sending a very powerful message not only to the elite and the leadership in Ukraine but to people around the world.

The real heroes are those individuals who put their lives on the line, many of whom lost their lives in that battle. We appreciate the efforts of people from coast to coast to coast here in Canada who in their caring hearts want to see Canada play a role in what is happening in Ukraine. That has been a motivating factor in what we are debating today and in the many other debates we have had, for well over a year, related to Ukraine.

We have had members' statements. We have had not one but two emergency debates, I believe. Many members of Parliament have visited Ukraine. We have had hundreds of people of Ukrainian heritage participate in the presidential election and parliamentary elections. All of this is because Canada truly cares about what is happening in Ukraine.

I indicated what a privilege it was to have President Petro Poroshenko address the House of Common and acknowledge how much he appreciated the friendship and general goodwill from Canada, in particular from people of Ukrainian heritage who have been reaching out and supporting Ukraine in a time of need.

Very briefly, I would just commend the people of Winnipeg for their efforts. We have seen fundraising events. We have seen protests, in very cold temperatures.

Canada has been engaged not only at the political level, but at the grassroots level. It has been the people, whether they are the people of Ukraine or the people of Canada, who have been a driving force to ensure that we take the actions that are so very important to support Ukraine in its time of need.

What can we do? We are talking today about sending 200 Canadian forces personnel for training purposes to Ukraine. The leader of the Liberal Party has stated, virtually from day one, that we support Canadian military personnel going over and playing the role that has been asked of them. Whether it was the hundreds of millions of dollars in aid or other types of support to Ukraine, much like Canadians as a whole, we as a political entity have been very supportive.

We have some incredible individuals within our caucus, including our critic for foreign affairs, the member for Toronto Centre, and my colleague from Wascana. As it was suggested earlier, the leader of the Liberal Party has allowed me, by going to Ukraine on several occasions, to get a better sense of what is taking place. That has been very beneficial. The caucus discussions we have had have been very thorough. In fact, some might recall that back in February, on behalf of the Liberal Party, I raised the issue during question period of Canada possibly having a military presence and asked what the government was doing in that regard.

We recognize the phenomenal efforts of individuals as well as organizations, none more than the Ukrainian Canadian Congress. It has been fantastic in supporting members of all political parties in the House and providing updates. There are some valid issues that have been raised through the congress. I have attempted to raise them this evening. I very briefly will make reference to two of them on which it would be valuable to hear some dialogue. I recognize it is a very awkward statement for some members to provide comment on, but it is something that needs to be raised.

I raise them in the perspective of our allies and the people who support us. We need to work in sync with our allies and the United States. There are also things that can be done in providing some leadership.

The first issue of banning Russia from the SWIFT banking system is something of great concern. I do not know to what degree the government has raised this issue, so I put that on the table.

Second, earlier today I made reference to the number of deaths. There have been an estimated 7,000 deaths and 19,000 wounded. The issue of weaponry is one that has been brought to our attention. I suspect it has also been brought to the attention of the government.

To what degree has the government had some sort of discussion on those issues with our allies and the United States?

We have talked about trade this evening. That has some merit in the long-term relationship between Canada and Ukraine. After all, President Poroshenko addressed the House and said, in essence, that he would welcome Canada entering into trade with Ukraine. If we think about the European Union, the trade deal and so forth, it would seem to be a natural fit. However, I suspect we have to be very aggressive on that file.

I have appreciated the opportunity to share a few thoughts.