Debates of Feb. 5th, 2019

Oppostion Motion—Single tax return in Quebec

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I would remind hon. members to direct their questions through the Chair. This also applies when they are answering questions.

The hon. member for Mégantic—L'Érable has 30 seconds or less.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it will be difficult because a lot of falsehoods and outrageous remarks have been said in a short time.

I repeat, there will be no job losses. No jobs will be lost, because we will continue working hard against tax evasion and making sure our civil servants use their expertise wisely. We want to make life easier for Quebeckers by allowing them to file a single tax return.

As I said during question period when I was talking about the definition of “revenue”, regardless of whether the revenue is federal or provincial, the paycheque is the same at the end of the month for the people who pay income tax, for blue-collar workers.

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I just heard a member on the other side call me an idiot in the House. I find that completely unacceptable.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I heard the same thing. I would ask the member to apologize.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I said “how idiotic”, and I stand by that.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is what she said.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I would like to remind members that the acoustics are excellent in this House. That said, the microphones only pick up their voices when they have the floor. Therefore, when someone is shouting, the people at home cannot hear it. They only hear the member who has the floor. Only when many members are shouting does it interrupt the person speaking. It would therefore be best if members could respect the person speaking so we can hear the whole discussion. We can make a judgment afterwards.

The hon. Minister of Infrastructure and Communities.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, Lib.]

Mr. Speaker, I will speak for about 20 minutes to talk about the motion moved by the Conservative Party that is being defended by colleagues from Quebec. As a Quebecker, that surprises me.

I want to thank the member for Mégantic—L'Érable for his remarks during question period. He apologized for his remarks concerning my colleague, the Minister of National Revenue. Frankly, I thank him because, in fact, I think that we all agree in the House that we can use the language of our choice, whether it be English or French. I thank him because he did the right thing, and I have great respect for him as a member.

Today, we will be emotional because we are standing up for 5,500 families. That is the issue today. The issue today is not politics. There are 5,500 families that depend on federal jobs. I often say on this side of the House that we have ambitions for our regions. I do not understand how there are still members on the other side of the House who are against protecting jobs in the regions.

I would say that anyone rising in the House today to jeopardize those jobs is irresponsible.

Yes, we are in favour of harmonization. Yes, we are in favour of making things simpler. Yes, we are in favour of modernizing income tax returns for Quebeckers, but we are also in favour of quality jobs in the regions. Yes, we want to preserve those jobs in Shawinigan and in Jonquière.

I have met with families and people with exceptional expertise. They work day after day, as public servants at the Canada Revenue Agency, and they do exceptional work. We should be congratulating them instead of jeopardizing their jobs.

I heard the member for Mégantic—L'Érable talk about respecting the National Assembly. I am happy that citizens have also had the opportunity to hear him and see him on television. Clearly, we have great respect for the National Assembly and its elected members. When the member tells Canadians watching us right now that no jobs will be lost, I do not think he is honouring the institution. If he believes that much in the words of the National Assembly, he should listen to the Premier of Quebec, who admitted himself that this would result in job losses in Quebec.

I rise today to be the voice of those who cannot be in the House. I rise for those who get up each and every day to serve Canadians, especially the workers in Shawinigan, whom we visited yesterday. We had fantastic news for the people of the Mauricie yesterday. We announced that we would not only upgrade the existing building, but also build a new one.

My colleague the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility said it very clearly. For over 10 years, the Conservatives have questioned those families' jobs. We want to put an end to that. Yesterday, we announced a new building to accommodate workers at the Canada Revenue Agency, commonly known in our area as the Shawinigan tax centre.

We will give these workers a green, modern, state-of-the-art building that we can all be proud of. Yes, the people of these regions are proud. Yes, the people of Shawinigan are proud. Yes, people in Jonquière are proud to work for the CRA. Today, we are the voice of these people we visited yesterday.

I heard Conservative members saying that there will not be any job losses. I suggest that they go and speak to the union president. They should go speak to Mr. Pelletier, Ms. Lafond and the director of the tax centre. They will see things in a completely different light. Shawinigan is home to a unique expertise. The Shawinigan tax centre is the largest bilingual verification and collections centre in Canada, and it is located in Quebec.

We should be rising in the House to show how proud we are to be Quebeckers and to have federal jobs in the regions. We should be proud to stand up for those workers who expect MPs to be their voice in the House. I think it is shameful that members are here today playing politics when we are talking about keeping good jobs in the regions.

In 2019, we can harmonize and simplify the tax return process for Quebeckers. We can coordinate efforts between the Canada Revenue Agency and Revenu Québec, but we will not do so at the expense of jobs in the regions. We know that our regions are important economic drivers.

The socio-economic fabric of my region relies on the Shawinigan National Verification and Collections Centre, which represents roughly $50 million in annual salaries. Probably nearly $1 billion has been paid in salaries in the region since the centre opened. It is a major economic driver. Yesterday, we could see these people in the gallery watching us here in the House with big smiles on their faces, applauding and thanking us for ending the uncertainty created over the past 10 years. They thanked us for being here to confirm that the work they do is valuable, for believing in their abilities, still believing in Quebec, and believing that the contribution made by these employees can make a difference. We decided yesterday to give them a new building that is worthy of their ambitions.

I see my colleagues from the Bloc Québécois, who are proud Quebeckers. I would like to hear them stand up for Shawinigan, stand up for Jonquière. I would like to see people like me, who come from Quebec, who come from the regions, stand in the House and say that our Conservative colleagues are playing politics at the expense of Quebec families, because that is exactly what they are doing.

I hope that my Bloc Québécois and NDP colleagues will continue to stand up and condemn what is happening. Yes, we can be proud to be Quebeckers. Yes, we have the right to have jobs in our regions. Yes, we can modernize the system and keep jobs in Jonquière and Shawinigan. I invite my Bloc Québécois colleagues to speak out loud and clear on behalf of Quebeckers, because 1,600 families from back home are probably watching today. There are 1,600 families in Shawinigan and 5,500 Quebeckers who expect my colleagues to stand up for them in the House.

If my Bloc Québécois and NDP colleagues do not, we will stand up for them because we, the 40 Liberal members, have a strong voice in this place. The seven ministers will be there and the Prime Minister will be there.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Some of my colleagues may laugh, but I can say that, if they had been in the chamber yesterday, they would have seen the 1,600 workers laugh at them, because they understood that the truth is that what we need is people who will fight to keep jobs in the regions. I cannot imagine that in 2019 we cannot accommodate jobs in Quebec and modernize at the same time. We are able to do both. That is what we tell Quebeckers: we will obviously work with them, but we will also give ourselves the means to succeed in the regions. We have the right to stand up for our families in the regions, who work hard for the Canada Revenue Agency.

I am emotional because, although those people do not have a seat in the House, they expect the members to defend Quebec in this place. I would invite my Conservative colleagues to talk to their leader and their colleagues to tell them that jobs in Quebec are important.

I cannot understand how an elected member from Quebec would not rise today to stand up for Quebec. In fact, that is the issue; it is a matter of occupying the territory, of defending the expertise that has been developed in the regions and of defending employees who get up each morning to serve Canadians.

The Shawinigan National Verification and Collections Centre is the most bilingual centre in the country. It serves all Canadians all the way from Shawinigan. It is something to be proud of. I was in the chamber yesterday; 1,600 people rose and applauded for about a minute, thanking us for trusting them and believing in them.

We will certainly continue to stand up for them, because we believe that we are able to make things better. What we will be giving to Shawinigan is not just a larger building, but also a greener building that reflects just what Quebecers want. When we invest, we do so in a smart way, and that is why we have invested in a new building.

We made that commitment several years ago. In 2015, I was in the park just in front of the Shawinigan Tax Centre, along with former prime minister Chrétien. We stood up and we said that we would do everything we could to preserve the sustainability of the Shawinigan Tax Centre. In 2016, the Minister of National Revenue committed to transforming the Shawinigan Tax Centre into a National Verification and Collections Centre, and we made that happen yesterday by saying that we would provide them with office space and a 21st century building.

We want the Shawinigan Tax Centre to be there for future generations. I think that we will show everyone in the Mauricie region, Quebec and Canada that it is a jewel and that those jobs in the region make an enormous difference.

I hope that my colleagues, including my colleague from Louis-Saint-Laurent, will stand tall and proud to defend Quebec. It is not about politics. It is about families. We will certainly not play politics at the expense of families. We are here to stand up for them. The people of Quebec sent us to Ottawa so we could stand up for them, along with our Bloc Québécois colleagues.

We must protect these jobs in Quebec. We are able to harmonize and modernize things and work with Quebec, while respecting the families who depend on these jobs in the regions. On this side of the House, we will always find a member or minister who is proud to speak about their region and also to stand up for the workers in Jonquière.

Yesterday, we were proud to reaffirm our plan to remain an employer of choice in the Mauricie by announcing a major investment in the region. As I said yesterday, the heroes of the story are the 1,600 workers who are there. Thanks to their hard work and expertise, together we have ensured the continued viability of the Shawinigan tax centre. I told them that I wanted to applaud them and to thank them, because it is because of them that we have come this far and can invest in the future with them.

I really hope that both sides of the House will come to the conclusion that our commitment to harmonization and modernization is the right choice, but that we must also preserve Quebec’s assets. I do not understand the members who are not proud to represent a riding where there are federal jobs and to defend our regions. I see some of them in the House.

It is in Quebec that this is happening. There are 5,500 good jobs in Quebec. Members of the Conservative Party, like the member for Mégantic—L’Érable, say that there will be no job losses. I do not know how many taxation centres he has managed in his lifetime, but the directors of the taxation centres, the union and the Premier of Quebec all tell us that this could result in job losses. It is 2019 and we can do better. We can harmonize things and simplify life for Quebeckers, but we can also keep jobs at home.

We are talking about Quebec. It goes without saying that Quebec members stand up for Quebec. We can do it. Let us look to the future together and make life easier for Quebeckers. With today’s technology, anything is possible. However, this should certainly not be done at the expense of families. I appeal to the common sense of my colleagues, because I know that they are good people.

I know we are talking about numbers today but yesterday, when I was in the House, I saw 1,600 faces. They are people I meet at IGA, at Jean Coutu or at Shell. They thank me for standing up for them and for their jobs, and for saying that we can make good use of the excellent work they do in their region. That is what they expect of Quebec MPs. They expect them to be proud leaders carrying the torch, not people who will sacrifice jobs to win an election.

I encourage my colleague to meet union officials and to talk to tax centre employees. They will tell her what is going to happen.

We must all rally on this issue. Common sense must prevail in the House of Commons. We have to understand that we can do better together. I cannot see why some prefer confrontation instead of looking for solutions when the issue is jobs and families. We are not talking about only 5,500 people, but 5,500 families. That is a lot of people.

I encourage Conservative members to visit my riding and see what kind of reception they get. Let them tell the families they meet that there is no cause for concern. These families have been living in fear for 10 years. They are the reason why we spoke loud and clear yesterday. They are the reason why the Prime Minister spoke today. We stand up for Quebeckers and we have great ambitions for regions.

At least, our colleagues from the Bloc Québécois and the NDP have the courage of their convictions. They stood up and spoke for regions. They are convinced that we can do better. I salute these members because, after a moment of hesitation, they came to their senses. I know that our other colleagues will also come to theirs, because nobody wants to put jobs at risk. No member in this House was elected to put jobs at risk.

I do not think anyone watching at home would have thought that their vote would help send someone to the House of Commons to put their job at risk. I am standing up for these 1,600 families in Mauricie who rely on their jobs at the tax centre. What I saw yesterday was pride. I will continue to repeat this, since it is important to talk about them.

On one side of the House they speak in conceptual terms, but I prefer to speak in real terms. These are human beings, and when we are talking about human beings, we have to tell their stories. We have to talk about the 40 years of knowledge that has been developed in Mauricie. That is why we need to take the time to talk about it.

I think the Conservatives are are on the wrong track, but Quebeckers know this. Quebeckers will remember. They have a long memory. When people put their jobs at risk, they know how to respond. They will remember, and we will make sure to remind them. Who voted to put their jobs at risk? Who voted against tax cuts? Who opposed modernizing our country's tax framework?

I believe that, today, we must ask ourselves one question: can we do better? When we ask this question, the answer readily appears. Yes, we can do better. What I would like is for the men and women in this place, in the House, to find a solution around harmonization rather than job losses.

Let us stop playing politics at the expense of Quebec regions. Let us continue to believe that we can do a good job and set aside politics when it is in the best interest of families and the people we represent. I know that each one of us can do that.

I will close by saying that there are moments in history when people are judged for their actions and their words and for everything they decide to do for Quebec. I believe that this is one of those moments and people will remember this for a long time. Let us not jeopardize valuable jobs in our regions. Let us instead use the expertise that has been developed and continue to have ambitions for our regions.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

What a beautiful, moving speech, Mr. Speaker.

The member talked about not playing politics at people's expense, and I totally agree with him, but announcing the construction of a wonderful new building in Shawinigan is kind of political. The building will be built in 2024, so the member cannot deny that is a political move. Let's be honest: we are all politicians.

Why is the Liberal Party once again ignoring the people of Quebec and the National Assembly, which unanimously adopted a motion? Why do the Liberals not even want to listen to them? They are slamming the door, but those of us on this side of the House are saying we should talk to the Premier of Quebec. This is a perfect opportunity to do something good for Quebec.

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague, for whom I have a great deal of respect, for allowing me to say that yes, we must work with the Premier of Quebec to see what can be done.

I want to come back to the building that was announced yesterday. It is a new building, 20,000 square meters, to accommodate the needs established by the Canada Revenue Agency. The current building is 17,000 square meters.

As for the timeline, we will be launching a bidding process in the coming weeks for the design, geotechnical studies, and environmental studies. The bidding process for the builder will be launched in 2021. Construction will begin in 2022 and will be completed in 2024. The reason it will take so long is because we chose to have one of the most modern and greenest buildings in the country. Yesterday we told employees that at the very least the building would meet LEED certification standards. In other words, the building will be the envy of public servants across the country. It will be the most technologically advanced and one of the greenest buildings in Canada. All these stages take time.

When we build something today, we build it for the 21st century. People expect us to build green, modern buildings that are on the cutting edge of technology. That is what we promised the tax centre employees we would do yesterday.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Saint-Maurice—Champlain for his speech.

Obviously, he can count me as an ally when it comes to defending jobs at the tax centre in Shawinigan, since about half of the employees there are probably residents of Trois-Rivières.

Where I really have a problem, however, is when they say they are not going to play politics with this. That is why we are here. Politics is all about finding the best way forward. What we have here is a Conservative Party that seems to live in a magical land of unicorns and a Liberal Party that seems to live in a land of denial. During the previous Parliament, before my colleague from Saint-Maurice—Champlain was even elected, I was already defending the Shawinigan tax centre. Why is this investment coming so late when, during the campaign in 2015, he and I had proposed more or less the same thing to workers in that sector? This proposal is coming so late in the term that it could only be implemented in the Liberal government's hypothetical second term. That is what I would take issue with today.

Quebec's request is a legitimate one. Can we find a way to respond without saying either that it can easily be done without any job losses, or that it is impossible? The difference is that the NDP has decided that no jobs will be cut and that a way forward will involve the major unions, which protect workers. We can find a way forward. It make take longer to come up with than the solution that my party's supporters decided on or imagined when they introduced a resolution at a convention. However, this does not mean that we stop considering the possibilities the following day.

When will we be able to follow up on this request by the Government of Quebec and find a way forward? I believe that the NPD, which is willing to sit down with all interested parties, is offering the best possible solutions.

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Trois-Rivières. Obviously, people will listen to him.

Anything is possible. I find it interesting to hear the NDP talk about unions. I met with the president of the national union yesterday. Union representatives Normand Pelletier and Michèle Lafond thanked us and told us that, for once, someone was speaking on their behalf. What I can say is that we have put politics completely aside. My colleague from Trois-Rivières knows that. Infrastructure projects are a long time in the making.

I am pleased that the member for Trois-Rivières is rising because approximately 800 people in his riding must be watching us with great interest. We should be rising to keep those jobs. I have said it in front of the cameras: we are all for harmonizing, coordinating and modernizing. Obviously, we want to reduce the burden on Quebec taxpayers. However, with regard to the deadline, it is going to take some time to build one of the greenest buildings in the country. I cannot imagine that the NDP would be against that. As we said, we will consult the employees. There is a deadline. We said that we would hold a bidding process in the coming weeks. Geotechnical, environmental and design studies will be conducted. Work will begin right after that with the selection of a contractor in 2021. Construction will start in 2022 and be completed in 2024.

The train has already left the station. We cannot go back. The employees are the ones who deserve congratulations, not the politicians. We should congratulate the employees who stood up. They are the ones who will help keep this project going. The government has decided, and this is why we are launching a bidding process in the coming weeks. We want to make sure that this gets done.

I realize that we need to put an end to the uncertainty that has been created. I hope that no one else will rise in the House to undermine jobs in our regions. Our survival depends on them.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is always interesting to hear my colleague, the minister, defend his point of view so fervently and passionately. Obviously, everyone knows he is a man of great talent and ambition, with many fine qualities. I will give him credit for that, but not for anything else.

He said repeatedly that he does not want to play politics on the backs of families, workers and Quebeckers, yet that is exactly what he did. Throughout his speech, he kept giving the impression that Conservatives want to kill jobs in Quebec. That is completely false, and he knows it.

Let me refresh his memory, while also speaking to the 1,600 workers in Shawinigan. On January 22, 2019, regarding the CRA employees, the Leader of the Opposition, the prime minister in waiting, the man we really hope becomes the next prime minister, made it very clear that eliminating public service jobs is out of the question for us, that these employees are going to tackle tax evasion, which is even better for taxpayers, and that we need these public servants to ensure compliance with federal laws.

That is what the Conservative Party leader said during our announcement two and a half weeks ago on January 22. The minister knows that and implied that he did not say those things. Why the political hypocrisy?

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Louis-Saint-Laurent, whom I very much respect. We cross paths often.

I am sure everyone will understand why I would ignore what the Conservative leader says in favour of what the Premier of Quebec said about this approach potentially causing job losses in Quebec.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

It has nothing to do with him, for crying out loud. It is none of his business.

[François-Philippe Champagne]

With all due respect, I am going to rely less on the Conservative leader, who has never been to Shawinigan, and more on the person in charge of the tax centre, the union president and the people who work there. They tell me the Conservatives' proposal is unthinkable because it would result in job losses.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

So now you trust François Legault?

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Let me make this clear: no Quebecker should stand up in the House to say things that could jeopardize good jobs in the regions.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

It is exactly the opposite, and you know it.

[François-Philippe Champagne]

Personally, I have high hopes for the regions, and I hope all the other MPs do too. I am not saying every proposal would have that effect. I am saying we should not even say things that could jeopardize those kinds of jobs in the regions because every job is precious and represents a family, people we have met. The Conservative leader may have said that, but I invite him to go meet the people who work at the centre. He would get a somewhat different response.

Canadians will soon have their say.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Before resuming debate, I want to remind members that according to the Standing Orders, at least as I understand them, one person asks a question and another one responds. Members must not yell at the person who is responding, nor at the person who is asking the question. This is just a reminder for all members who are in the House today, in case they have forgotten.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this debate. I will be splitting my time with my colleague for Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles.

Let me be perfectly clear that this will be a political speech. I make no excuses for that. I am a politician first and foremost. I am the only female Conservative member from Quebec, and I care deeply about my region and all regions.

I find it deplorable that the Liberal Party is launching a fearmongering campaign aimed not at politicians, but at workers. Liberals need not worry. Our leader will go talk to the workers. He has a message for them. In 2006, here in this House, we voted unanimously for Prime Minister Harper to recognize the Quebec nation. There were 266 votes for the motion and 15 votes against, all from Liberal members. That was peculiar. I do not understand. Where were the Liberals when the time came to vote for the Quebec nation?

Here is the resolution from Quebec's National Assembly, which was also passed unanimously:

THAT the National Assembly ask the Government of Québec and the Federal Government to implement a single tax report for Québec taxpayers, to be filed with Revenu Québec, while preserving Québec's fiscal autonomy.

Once we have read that, it is time for action. We care about the people of Quebec, and I will never stand idly by while a Quebec MP from any party, especially the Liberal Party, ostentatiously claims we are not standing up for Quebec. We have always stood up for Quebec. There are 12 Conservative MPs from Quebec, and all of our voices can be heard in that province. The same cannot be said of the Liberals right now. We can hear the ministers, but the MPs from Quebec are practically silent.

When Quebec needed help, we were there almost every time. It is important to understand that we have room to manoeuvre in this day and age. We are entering a new era. It is 2019, and we will act accordingly. It is important that the House show profound respect for provincial jurisdiction and great confidence in provincial institutions. However, there is a paternalistic party on the other side that encroaches on provincial jurisdiction at will. On our side, we allow provinces to have more freedom, since we recognize that each one is different and has its own way of seeing things. It is important to say so. In Quebec, we want to cut the red tape. We have to file two tax returns, while people in all the other provinces only have to file one.

Quebec has long been asking to be allowed to do things its own way. Over the years, each federal party in power gave us a little more leeway. Today, we are asking for the same thing. Quebeckers are asking us for it, and the National Assembly is unanimously asking us for it. In our respective ridings, there are a lot of people paying attention to this issue.

There has been some fearmongering over job losses, but that is not going to come true. Jobs can be created in different ways. For some time now, there has been a lot of talk about tax evasion. Now may be the time to get these people working to fight tax evasion. This may be the perfect time to focus on it and come up with alternatives so that all these fine people get to keep working for years to come.

Over the past few months, my colleagues, our leader and I have gone out to meet Quebeckers and hear about their thoughts and ideas. We have criss-crossed Quebec many times over. We have all been listening to Quebeckers. Every time we met Quebeckers, we talked with them. We sat down to listen to them, to take notes and to talk. That is what a frank discussion is all about.

What we are asking all parties to do is to keep an open mind, listen to what Quebec wants, and then sit down with Quebeckers to figure out exactly how the single tax return will work. That is what Quebec is asking us to do. The Liberal Party of Quebec supported the idea before, and the CAQ supports it today. The Quebec parties unanimously agree. All this politicking is needless. They did not all get this idea out of a Cracker Jack box. Everyone agrees with it.

The Liberals are raising the spectre of job losses, but they need to stop. That kind of scare tactic should not be used in 2019, because jobs are needed everywhere. There will not be any job losses. At this point in time, we can look at what can be improved and how it can be improved in order to make sure all these fine people are aware of the change. There will be changes, because there will be a single tax return.

I will always stand up for Quebec. I will always be proud to be a Quebecker. I will always be proud of my home. I will always be proud to say “present” whenever Quebec needs something.