House of Commons Hansard #10 of the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was oversight.

Topics

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, I noted a previous speaker indicated there had been 1,200 complaints related to the CBSA between 2016 and 2018. The parliamentary secretary mentioned 2,500 complaints annually.

I am wondering about past complaints and how those would be handled by the commission once it has expanded and is operational. Would there be a statute of limitations?

Admittedly, I have not scrutinized the legislation. How does the parliamentary secretary see the expanded commission dealing with past complaints? Should those complainants have the ability to have an independent external review of their situation?

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Mr. Speaker, the prospectivity or retroactivity of any piece of legislation or new guideline is critical in terms of understanding how it is operationalized.

To be candid, I do not know the answer to that question. I will endeavour to inquire with him. It is something that perhaps would merit some scrutiny at committee where this bill would eventually be scrutinized further, in terms of clarifying the notion of whether the complaints currently in the system would actually have some application to the new regime or whether they would be grandfathered under the old regime, potentially necessitating a reinitiation of the complaint to the new body.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Oakville North—Burlington Ontario

Liberal

Pam Damoff LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indigenous Services

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member spoke eloquently about the need for this agency. We have 14,000 people working at CBSA, men and women who are doing a tremendous job keeping our country safe and keeping our borders safe.

I wonder if the parliamentary secretary could talk a little about the good work that CBSA does.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Mr. Speaker, it goes without saying that the work that the CBSA does is of tremendous volume and tremendous impact. Right now we are living through the new coronavirus that is affecting our borders. The work of CBSA officials, including public health officials and the Public Health Agency of Canada, has been incredible. It is a particularly stressful time, understandably. Those people are courageously putting themselves in the middle of this situation, calming Canadians and, most importantly, keeping Canadians safe.

That is the work they do all the time. That is why they have significant powers. This bill is simply about ensuring that public confidence is maintained at all times. It goes without saying that the CBSA's important work is lauded and valued in this country.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am curious to know, based on the parliamentary secretary's understanding of this legislation, if the commission undertakes an investigation and learns of a civil or legal action, or a criminal action, does this mechanism allow them to cease that investigation and hand over the information to police of jurisdiction or to the courts with respect to another legal matter?

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Mr. Speaker, that is an important question. It will obviously have to be addressed on a case-by-case basis. However, what this legislation does speak to is whether there is a contemporary process that is ongoing, such as, for example, a complaint filed with the Human Rights Commission or a complaint in some other civilian body. If there is a proper police investigation and Criminal Code matter that is being pursued, that would have to be addressed in terms of whether this new mechanism is triggered or whether it waits in abeyance until the Criminal Code matter is sorted out. That is something that the legislation turns its mind to. It would have to be addressed on a case-by-case basis.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

Oakville North—Burlington Ontario

Liberal

Pam Damoff LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indigenous Services

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise today to speak to Bill C-3, which seeks to establish a new, independent public complaints and review body for the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA. This represents another step forward in the government's commitment to ensuring that all of its agencies and departments are accountable to Canadians.

As a member of the public safety committee during the last Parliament, I am quite proud to have participated in legislation that made remarkable change and took the number of measures we took to ensure greater accountability of our security agencies and departments.

Two years ago, our Bill C-22 received royal assent, establishing the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians. That addressed a long-standing need for parliamentarians to review the Government of Canada's activities and operations in regard to national security and intelligence. It has been in operation for some time now and is a strong addition to our system of national security review and accountability. As members will know, the committee has the power to review activities across government, including the CBSA.

To complement that, our committee studied our national security framework, as well as Bill C-59, which allowed for the creation of the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency, or NSIRA. NSIRA is also authorized to conduct reviews of any national security or intelligence activity carried out by federal departments and agencies, including the CBSA. All of this is on top of existing review and oversight mechanisms in the public safety portfolio.

The Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the RCMP investigates complaints from the public about the conduct of members in the RCMP, for example, and does so in an open, independent and objective manner. The Office of the Correctional Investigator conducts independent, thorough and timely investigations about issues related to Correctional Service Canada.

Bill C-3 would fill a gap in the review of the activities of our public safety agencies. The existing Civilian Review and Complaints Commission, which is responsible for complaints against members of the RCMP, would see its name change to the public complaints and review commission and its mandate expanded to include the CBSA. It would be able to consider complaints against CBSA employee conduct or service, from foreign nationals, permanent residents and Canadian citizens, regardless of whether they are within or outside of Canada. Reviews of national security activities would be carried out by NSIRA.

Here is how it would work in practice. If an individual has a complaint unrelated to national security, she or he would be able to direct it either to the commission or to the CBSA. Both bodies would notify the other of any complaint made. The CBSA would be required to investigate any complaint, except those disposed of informally. The commission would be able to conduct its own investigation of the complaint in situations where the chairperson is of the opinion that doing so would be in the public interest. If an individual is not satisfied with the CBSA's response, the commission would be able to follow up as it sees fit.

The new PCRC would also be able to produce findings on the CBSA's policies, procedures and guidelines. It would also be able to review CBSA's activities, including making findings on CBSA's compliance with the law and the reasonableness and necessity of the exercise of its powers. Indeed, the commission's findings on each review would be published in a mandatory annual public report.

Bill C-3 not only fills a gap in our review system. It answers calls from the public and Parliament for independent review of CBSA. Most significantly, the Senate Standing Committee on National Security and Defence, in its 2015 report, encouraged the creation of an oversight body. I would like to acknowledge Bill S-205 from our last Parliament, introduced in the other place not long after the government took office, which proposed a CBSA review body as well.

Certainly we have heard from academics, experts and other stakeholders of the need to create a body with the authority to review CBSA. During testimony at the public safety committee on December 5, 2017, Alex Neve, secretary general of Amnesty International, said, “how crucial it is for the government to move rapidly to institute full, independent review of CBSA.” This was reflective of much of the testimony we heard, and I am pleased the government is acting on this advice. I would also like to acknowledge my colleague from Toronto—Danforth for her efforts and advocacy for the establishment of a CBSA review body.

The CBSA has a long and rich history of providing border services in an exemplary fashion. It does so through the collective contribution of over 14,000 dedicated professional women and men, women like Tamara Lopez from my community, who is a role model for young women looking for a career in the CBSA.

The CBSA already has robust internal and external mechanisms in place to address many of its activities. For example, certain immigration-related decisions are subject to review by the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, and its customs role can be appealed all the way up to the Federal Court.

That said, when it comes to the public, the CBSA should not be the only body receiving and following up on complaints about its own activities. Indeed, some Canadians might not be inclined to say a word if they do not have the confidence that their complaint will be treated independently, objectively and thoroughly. Bill C-3 would inspire that confidence.

The Government of Canada is committed to ensuring that all of its agencies and departments are accountable to Canadians. Bill C-3 would move the yardstick forward on that commitment. It would bring Canada more closely in line with the accountability bodies of border agencies in other countries, including those of our Five Eyes allies.

The accountability and transparency of our national security framework has improved greatly since we were elected in 2015. This bill would continue these efforts by providing border services that keep Canadians safe and by improving public trust and confidence. Bill C-3 would ensure that the public continues to expect consistent, fair and equal treatment by CBSA employees. That is why I am proud to stand behind Bill C-3 today.

In the last Parliament, the House of Commons unanimously passed Bill C-98, which was a bill to bring oversight to CBSA. Although that bill died in the Senate, it is my hope that all parties will again come together to pass this bill.

I listened to the member for Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner speak earlier in this debate. He spoke at length about firearms and his petition opposing our promise to make Canadians safer by enhancing gun control. I would remind him that almost 80% of Canadians support a ban on military-style assault rifles according to an independent Angus Reid survey.

I know he and his party supported oversight of the CBSA in the last Parliament. I hope he and all members will join me in supporting oversight in this Parliament under Bill C-3 and assure the bill's passage this session.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the member on her re-election to this place.

I want to pick up specifically on her comments about firearms. Of course, the Conservatives believe in the importance of enhancing public safety, and we think the government needs to do more to target the issue of illegal guns, as a vast majority of gun crime in this country involves illegal guns.

However, one issue that is provoked by her comments about military-style weapons is the question of classification. Firearms owners in my riding have identified the reality that for some politicians classification has less to do with the actual attributes of a firearm and more to do with its appearance. One of the other frustrations they often mention is the arbitrary reclassification of firearms, when firearms in one category are quickly moved to another category without proper discussion or oversight.

Why is the government not moving forward aggressively on the issue of illegal imported guns? We know that the overwhelming majority of violent crimes in this country involve illegal guns.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to correct the hon. member. Over 75% of deaths by firearms in Canada are suicides.

When there is a firearm in the home, women are less likely to come forward to report issues of domestic violence and are less likely to seek help in a shelter. In a survey done in Atlantic Canada, 80% of women said they would be less likely to come forward. I think sometimes we get wrapped up in the guns and gangs discussion.

Having said that, our government is moving forward by investing in youth to prevent them from joining gangs. We invested $500 million in the last Parliament in border services to replace the cuts made by the Conservative government under Stephen Harper so that we would have a robust border system to stop guns from coming across the border.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary's comments raise one question in my mind. I have listened to all of the speakers, and it seems that there is strong support and agreement that this oversight body is needed. However, my colleague mentioned earlier that Justice O'Connor called for this type of oversight in 2010. As a new member to this House, I am a little befuddled as to why it has taken this long to get to the point we are at today.

Could the parliamentary secretary comment on that matter?

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, through you, I would like to welcome the hon. member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley to this place.

It is true that this legislation has been called for for a long time. After we were elected in 2015, we brought a robust number of bills to the public safety committee. The public safety minister at the time, Ralph Goodale, was introducing more legislation than was coming from any other department. He was fixing the previous national security framework in Bill C-59. We brought in Bill C-22 and we did introduce Bill C-98 to deal with the CBSA review agency. Unfortunately, the bill ran out of time in the Senate before it could be passed.

It is my hope that we can do this quickly and get it sent to committee and the Senate and finally get this review body in place.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would be remiss to not comment back and ask a question about the parliamentary secretary's parting shot over the bow on military-style assault rifles, a term that has no definition in this country. If she is referring to military-grade firearms that are already prohibited in this country, and have been for decades, I do not understand the use of that term, other than to confuse the public on the issue. They may not otherwise understand the laws we currently have in this country.

Can the parliamentary secretary describe what a military-style assault rifle is? In addition, can she tell us what legislation is being proposed to target gangs and gun violence perpetrated by criminals in this country, rather than targeting law-abiding gun owners?

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will leave it to the Minister of Public Safety to bring forward any legislation. I am not going to presuppose what he will bring forward. I would echo what my colleague from Parkdale—High Park said about moving the ability to classify rifles away from politicians and to the RCMP.

I would challenge the member for Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner that guns and gangs are taken very seriously by government. We are investing in law enforcement and youth, preventing youth from joining gangs and giving law enforcement the funding and tools they need to carry out and enforce laws, and we are investing in border services.

We have also ensured that when a criminal is convicted, firearms are forfeited to the Crown. That was in Bill C-71, and that measure was opposed by the Conservative Party. Rather than those guns going to a friend or relative, they are now forfeited to the Crown.

That said, the question has nothing to do with Bill C-3. I would call on my colleague from Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner and other members in this House to support Bill C-3.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

January 29th, 2020 / 5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, I stand today in this chamber and am pleased to speak for the first time as a re-elected member of Parliament for Yorkton—Melville. I and my fellow Saskatchewan caucus colleagues thank all our constituents for painting the province of Saskatchewan completely blue.

Bill C-3 actually mirrors Bill C-98, an act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and the Canada Border Services Agency Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts. As we all know, the bill took so long to introduce that it was not passed prior to the 2019 federal election.

This legislation proposes to repurpose and rename the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to the “public complaints and review commission”. Under its new name, the commission will also be responsible for reviewing civilian complaints against the Canadian Border Services Agency. The bill would ensure that all Canadians law enforcement agencies would have an oversight body.

Canadians expect effective oversight of federal law enforcement agencies. The Liberals made a promise to do this in 2015.

During its previous mandate, the Liberal government took so long to act on this issue that Bill C-98 failed to be passed prior to the 2019 election.

The former Privy Council Office chief, Mel Cappe, had been hired to conduct an independent report and provide his recommendations in June 2017, which he did. However, it was only because of an access to information request by CBC News that Parliament even became aware of this report. For two years, the government and the then, and now no longer, public safety minister from Saskatchewan sat on that report.

We, who served in the previous Parliament, were counting down the days and nights until the session came to a close. Then, at the last possible moment, this rather straightforward and simple but essential legislation was finally introduced. Why did it take the previous majority Liberal government three and a half years to draft and introduce Bill C-98 to the House? In the eleventh hour, it was too late to deal with such a critical promise that impacted public safety.

The Liberals' poor management and bad decision-making impacted RCMP officers, who had to be deployed and dedicated to dealing with illegal border crossings. They were pulled from other details, from monitoring returned ISIS fighters, tackling organized crime. They were pulled from rural detachments, where the RCMP is already short staffed and dealing with an increase in rural crime. The claim that there are more police available in rural Canada is not true, a statement made and not followed through on.

When the Liberal majority government was ineptly unable to keep an election promise at the eleventh hour, so as to not appear to have broken even more promises, it meant an even longer wait, through the whole election process, through the weeks of delay before the House was finally called back by the Prime Minister to sit just before Christmas for a short time only to go into the winter break. Here we finally are today in a second attempt to get the job done of Bill C-3.

The government has been plagued by inefficiency and lack of foresight since the beginning of its first mandate, further hamstringed by one ethical breach after another, through brazen attitudes of entitlement, to the foolish boldness of demanding and coercing our independent justice system and principled people to bow to executive power.

Just this past week we have seen the frightening fallout of the government putting their friends ahead of good governance: A violent man sentenced to life in prison in 2006 for viciously murdering his wife was granted day parole in the fall of 2019. His case manager indicated a moderate risk of reoffending and he was to avoid relationships but could have encounters with women, as long as it was strictly sexual. As a result, a young woman lost her life.

Who in their right mind would create the environment for any woman to be put in harm's way like this? Ex-parole board commissioner Dave Blackburn stated that “such a condition is 'unbelievable'”.

The Liberal government has to take responsibility for a foolish decision it made in 2015 to not renew any parole board appointees, purely a political decision that removed all historical experience from the board and replaced them all, through the Privy Council, with Liberal appointees.

I believe the desk will be pleased, Mr. Speaker, to hear I will be splitting my time with the member for Kootenay—Columbia.

Since then, there has been a more than 25% increase in the awarding of day parole in Canada. This is ridiculous. Canadians have no faith that an internal inquiry will get to the bottom of the incompetence that falls on the Liberal government. An external inquiry of the national Parole Board must take place. The government does not have credibility when it comes to dealing with its own self-serving, intentional mistakes.

As well, we know the delay in bringing forward this legislation was not due in any way to so many consultations. As a matter of fact, again and again, we have heard from stakeholders that they were not consulted. From what I have heard today on the floor, that has not changed.

This legislation proposes changes to the Canada Border Services Agency, yet the Customs and Immigration Union was never contacted. This is another blatant inconsistency by the government. On one end, there was no consultation. On the other, there was the virtue signalling of setting up advisory councils for our veterans but doing nothing other than giving a platform for photo ops and the appearance of consultation before the reveal.

The fact that the Liberal government could not be bothered to consult the biggest stakeholders, the union representatives of the CBSA front-line workers, says it is not about the workers. It appears the Liberals feel they can pick and choose which unions they are going to give special treatment to while others are totally ignored.

Conservative members will work with the government in the interests of the principles of the bill, but rest assured we want to make sure that the people impacted are part of the committee review process. We want to ensure that proper committee time is taken to look at the changes to the RCMP Act and the CBSA Act, and make sure we are doing a service to the people who will be impacted by them, whether it is on a public complaints process or other elements.

As good as this policy is, it needs good government to implement it, not a government consistently mired in scandal that loses track of its responsibilities and then, concerned about its re-election, attempts to rush this legislation through irresponsibly. It does not need a government that is so out of touch that it fails to consult with the Canadians who would be impacted.

The government's approach demonstrates a complete lack of accountability, care and respect for Canadians. There is unrest across western Canada that must not be ignored. I would warn that we must no longer be fuelled by intentional actions that encourage that unrest instead of building consensus and recognizing and celebrating healthy interdependence across our amazing country.

Our nation, and all people of Canada, deserve a government that legislates responsibly, respectfully and with the best interests of all Canadians in mind. I look forward to the day we form that government.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:55 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada and to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I remember, and I am sure the member will recall, that when we came back in 2015, legislation had been carried over from when Stephen Harper was the prime minister. He had his legislative agenda, but toward the end of that Parliament he was not able to get a number of bills through because of when they were introduced. Liberal ministers reviewed that legislation and on occasion brought some of it forward.

Would the member not agree that, when a parliamentary session comes to an end, there is some benefit in terms of having legislation be debated all the way to the end of that session. That provides the opportunity, whether it is the same party in government or a new party in government, to continue on with that legislation.

That is how I see this particular piece of legislation. I suspect, given the comments from all members of the House, that it is a good piece of legislation, it is a good starting point, and we owe today's starting point to when it was brought in during the last Parliament.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, we have agreed around this table that this is good legislation and it needs to come forward. The Liberals made a promise in 2015 that this would happen, but it did not even hit the floor of this place until we were going out the door. Studies were being done that were hidden. We would not have found out about what was going on unless the CBC made a request for information to know what was happening.

If we are working on this as a House and suddenly legislation is brought forward at the end of a session, I question the motives behind why that was done. I agree that there are times when a government gets legislation out so at least it is in the eyes of the House. However, we know no consultation was done and that came through loud and clear from the people who would be impacted by this legislation.

Unfortunately that still has not happened, and here we are discussing it again in the House. It is unfortunate that the people this legislation would impact did not have the opportunity to speak to it.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, I beg your forgiveness, but as a new member of Parliament, and I am very proud to be a member of Parliament for the NDP in Alberta, what I do not understand is why it has taken so long for this legislation to come forward. As everyone knows, the NDP has been asking for this legislation for many years, certainly back to when Stephen Harper was prime minister. I am wondering how the member can talk about the delays when the delays began under a Conservative government.

I will read a quote, which states, “It is a basic principle of good human rights practice that agencies that have detention and police powers should be subject to independent oversight and the CBSA has both. It is time that the CBSA is held accountable through an independent and impartial process.”

In addition to why it took so long and knowing that this is important and that Canadians want this legislation, will the Conservative Party support this legislation?

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, I welcome the member to the House. I ran in a nomination in her riding many years ago.

I agree that we should come to a consensus on this. I am very much sensing in the House that it is something we need to move forward on. Canadians expect it and it needs to be done. I look forward to the bill going to committee and getting the proper oversight there going forward.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB

Mr. Speaker, this is the first time I rise in the House this session and I want to thank the good constituents of my riding of Provencher for re-electing me and showing their confidence in me for the third time.

I want to recognize the world-class officers we have in both the CBSA and the RCMP. I am confused as to why the Liberal government would increase their workload by allowing the illegal migrants to come across the border in my riding, but also in Quebec at Roxham Road and in British Columbia. Does the member have any idea why the Liberals would want to do that and tax our good officers any more than they have been?

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, this is definitely an issue that was raised right across our country as the illegal immigrants were coming into Canada. The very fact that it was allowed in the first place is questionable. I will be very polite there.

The second thing is that, yes, it caused a great deal of dissension within the ranks of border services individuals, as well as the RCMP. The expectation is that they take this on when they are already pretty limited in their ability to succeed in the jobs they have. It creates more stress, quite honestly, for them in the workplace. For me, as a person who goes across that border and deals with people, we want people who are prepared and ready to do their jobs and not stretched to the nth degree.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Speaker, as this is my first speech, I want to take the opportunity to thank the great people in the Kootenay—Columbia riding for putting their trust and faith in me to represent them in Ottawa. The support from my family and friends was incredible and from my wife, Heather and our five children, Ryan, Rob, Kassidy, Chelsea and Kendall.

With 80,000 square kilometres, it was very challenging to travel and meet residents from all corners of the riding. The campaign team and volunteers did an outstanding job, working long hours every day.

I listened to the concerns, the priorities for softwood lumber and priorities with the firearms legislation. I also want to talk about supporting the mining industry, tourism, the energy sector, Alberta, as it is neighbouring our riding, and health.

I am pleased to speak to Bill C-3, an act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and the Canada Border Services Agency Act. I do so today on behalf of many border officials in ports of Kingsgate, Nelway, Porthill, Roosville and Rykerts, all within the riding of Kootenay—Columbia.

I thank them for their service and I thank the CBSA Kootenay area chief of operations for leadership and dedication in ensuring the safety and security of our area. I also support the RCMP, which provides municipal, rural, provincial and federal policing throughout the Kootenay—Columbia riding.

I want to take this opportunity to acknowledge the hard work and dedication of all the men and women who serve to protect this great nation from coast to coast.

One issue I heard when travelling throughout the riding was the word “accountability”, which is really interesting because that is exactly what we are talking about today.

I support internal investigations. In fact, I have been involved in many internal investigations in the RCMP in a 35-year career. I support independence. I believe we need independent investigations. It would be great to hear how this is going to work. I have not heard yet, with the delays in investigations. I know right now with the RCMP, which has an independent review, it is two, three or four years at least. We have some members on the old RCMP act and some members on the new act, and now we are going to change it again to have a new accountability process with this review committee.

I have heard some concerns about the consultation of CBSA with its union. I am also wondering about the consultation with the RCMP, as they are now working toward a union as well. Have we looked at the consultation there and have people come in? I look forward to the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security having people come in so we can talk to them and see how they feel about what is happening.

One of the most important things that has not been brought up is training and service standards. What are the service standards of CBSA? What are the service standards of the RCMP? What exactly is the role of an RCMP member? The review committee can then understand what that person is going to do, what they should be doing and what they should not be doing, so they do not, because they have no experience in law enforcement, for example, think that behaviour is inappropriate when maybe it is or vice versa.

Developing service standards is a requirement before we can move forward with the bill, so that the review committee has a clear understanding of the role for CBSA and the role for the RCMP.

One thing that came up at one of the last meetings of the public safety committee was administrative issues that were not expected. I would be interested to hear from the government what those administrative issues were. Was it the hiring of new people? Was it the service standards or was it a union? I do not understand what administrative issues would have popped up in December.

The RCMP and CBSA are very reputable organizations. I want to be up front. They would welcome a well-thought-out, well-trained independent review, but not something where someone is appointed and we would run into the same issues we are having right now with the Parole Board.

I request that the government and the public safety minister answer some of these questions so that we can move forward in supporting this bill and the changes proposed in it.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB

Mr. Speaker, in the last Parliament, as a rookie MP, I made the mistake of asking a question from someone else's seat. Thankfully the Chair was not aware of that, but I learned my lesson.

I thank the member for his speech and for the wisdom he brings to the position of deputy shadow critic for public safety, as well as for being on the public safety committee.

He mentioned service standards. I wonder if the member could provide an explanation or a better understanding of the type of service standards the public could expect in the role of a CBSA or RCMP officer and what that would actually look like. What would the member's recommendation be to the committee to consider as a parameter to be put into an amendment?

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Speaker, on the service standards, law enforcement officers are trained in Regina. They have six months of training and go through a whole process of what they can do legally when they are arresting someone and how much force they can use. This is really sensitive in that in most cases, they do not need to use force and they would not. They would arrest someone, and it would be very calm. The person would go to jail and there would be no other issues. However, if there was violence involved, how much violence could the RCMP officer use to protect themselves and others?

It is really important that the people selected for this independent review committee specifically understand the powers of members of the RCMP and the CBSA, for example, in searching vehicles at the border and asking to look at what is in the trunk of a car. What are the powers? If they overextend those powers, what did they do to overextend them?

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the new member on his election to Parliament and on his first speech in the House. I am encouraged by his support for oversight of this law enforcement agency.

However, I wonder if the member shares the concerns expressed here today about the exclusion of consideration of complaints about the detention of people. Border agents have the power to arrest and detain people, with or without warrants. That seems to be excluded from the oversight.

Does the member have any concerns about that, since the border agents could arrest and hold children as well as adults without the possibility of complaints being dealt with?

Royal Canadian Mounted Police ActGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Speaker, at this time, no, I do not have any concerns. I would like to see a review of the entire bill, which will happen when we sit in our committee meetings.