Debates of Nov. 25th, 2021

Order Respecting the Business of the House and its Committees

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Speaker, the government has been presenting arguments all day about the safety of staff and health. Now we are hearing that this is about convenience, this is about the environment and this is about the continuation of a virtual Parliament until the end of time. Which reason is it? Is it for the safety of the House, or is it for the environment or is it simply for the convenience of member?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would like to welcome the new member across the aisle. She is my neighbour in Thornhill.

First, we have talked about this all along: the commitment to keep Canadians safe; the commitment to keep the House running and working. This is not about convenience. This is about ensuring that we fulfill our legislative duties in our roles as parliamentarians to represent Canadians from our constituencies from coast to coast to coast.

I think it is convenient for the member to ask the question.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. We heard her deliver a long speech and talk at length about the environmental benefits of a hybrid Parliament.

Which does she think would have a greater impact on climate change: a hybrid Parliament or ending fossil fuel subsidies?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, right now, this debate is why we need a hybrid Parliament. It is not about fossil fuels and what we will do in the future. We have made a commitment to Canadians to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. We have made a commitment to ensure that the clean fuel from our country is the cleanest it can be, as we move forward for Canadians. However, right now we are talking about the safety of the House and keeping it working.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Madam Speaker, if the member were talking about all the vaccinated Conservatives over there, I would have been more sold on her argument. However, what she is telling us is that it is much more efficient. She said it is cheaper, cleaner and maybe more carbon friendly not to have a sitting democracy.

If we are going to start dealing with the Liberals' horrific record on the environment, I would not use democracy as a way of cheapening that. The Environment Commissioner today said that Canada was once a leader under the G7 and now we are a laggard, thanks to the government.

I would like to hear the member tell us what the emissions standards are that the Liberals will actually impose. Was that just a photo op at Glasgow? Our workers are waiting to see action, so why does the member not explain that?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I would like to remind the member that we were talking about the added benefits of a safe Parliament for Canadians and for parliamentarians, and that lowering GHG emissions is a benefit of that. I would be happy to debate with him at another time on our environmental policy.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Madam Speaker, I thank the constituents of Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa for sending me here for the second time.

This is my first time rising in the House, and I have a question for the hon. member. Do you plan on—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Questions are through the Chair.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I am sorry, Madam Chair. I have a question through the Speaker. Do you plan on attending committees in person for the first time since you have never attended them in person?

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I will remind the member again. He might want to use the word “she” as opposed to “you”.

The hon. member for York Centre.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, I would like to welcome my colleague from across the floor, and I congratulate him on his standing in the House for the first time. It is a pleasure to work with you.

I did tremendous work in committee through Zoom last year. In fact, I am happy to speak with my colleague about it. Bill C-12, the Canadian Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act, is a bill of which I am very proud. I have worked on other important legislation in committee. We will continue to do so as long as we follow the Public Health guidelines.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Again, I want to remind the member to address questions and comments through the Chair and to maybe use “him” instead “you”.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Churchill—Keewatinook Aski.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with my colleague, the member for Parliament for Victoria.

I am proud to speak in 100% support of the motion to move back to a hybrid Parliament. I am proud that the NDP has been pushing for a hybrid Parliament. I am proud to rise in the House for the first time in this Parliament. I am honoured to fight for the people of northern Manitoba. It is rooted in where I come from and who I represent that I rise in the House to make it abundantly clear that we need a hybrid Parliament.

I am frankly shocked that in the year 2021, in the throes of a fourth wave of a global pandemic, after a year and a half of creating and making a hybrid Parliament work, that we are even having this debate. It is a failure of leadership that we are even here having this debate, frankly. We should have gone straight back into a hybrid Parliament.

Let me start by making it clear. It is reckless to push for an in-person Parliament. We are in the fourth wave of the global COVID-19 pandemic. COVID-19 is very much still spreading across our country. It is making people sick, including those who are doubly vaccinated. In Manitoba, two double-vaccinated MLAs have COVID-19 right now. We also know that COVID-19 is still killing people, and I want to share my condolences with the family of Senator Josée Forest-Niesing.

What do we know right now? We know that COVID-19 cases are on the rise once again in our country. We know that people are being encouraged to get their booster shots to ensure vaccine efficacy. We know that there is greater chance of transmission in crowded enclosed spaces, particularly during winter months as people move inside. We know upgrading our masks when inside is the way to go, but somehow this does not seem to apply to some people on planet Parliament.

I was here on Monday when we elected our Speaker and when we voted for the Assistant Deputy Speaker. There was no social distancing. There was overcrowding, and in the lobby, more than one Conservative MP at a time was not wearing a mask. We know that some Conservative members are also choosing not to disclose whether they are vaccinated.

We were told early on in this pandemic that we were vectors in the spread of COVID-19. Today, we have 338 people travelling from various parts of the country, including hot spots, all in one place. We are vectors once again.

We have to be concerned not only for our colleagues, but for our loved ones and our constituents, and we cannot pretend that we are the only ones working here.

Our work is made possible by the hundreds of people who work on Parliament hill, from our party staff to pages to interpreters to technical staff to security guards to cleaning staff to catering staff. Their health and safety should not be put at risk because we as MPs refuse to acknowledge the ongoing reality of a global pandemic. We can make a difference with a hybrid Parliament that takes advantage of virtual technology, that allows us to participate in our communities rather than everyone having to be here.

Let us also be clear that a hybrid Parliament makes sense in terms of logistics. It has become harder for us to get to and go back from Ottawa. Many flights and many routes have been cut since the beginning of the pandemic. The regional carrier, Calm Air, servicing my community, Thompson, the largest city in my riding, has cut almost half of its flights to and from Winnipeg. Air Canada has no direct flights from Winnipeg to Ottawa and back. These flights have not been restored, and they will not be restored anytime soon, making our travel to and from Ottawa longer and oftentimes a logistical nightmare.

My message for colleagues who feel they are okay, because they can simply step on a flight or get in their car to get to Ottawa, is to look beyond their own personal circumstances. We need to find solutions that ensure we can all do this work safely.

Beyond the pandemic, a hybrid Parliament is the way of the future, a future where more women can get involved. We are not in the 1860s anymore, when male MPs left their kids with their wives at home and went to Ottawa to live their lives unencumbered by the responsibilities of being a parent or a caregiver. It is 2021. We can and must do our work differently in a way that reflects values of gender equality and the need to see 50% of the House represented by women.

I have been asked many times about how we can get more women elected, and I cannot say how many times I have heard from women who are thinking of having kids, or who have kids, that they cannot imagine running to be an MP and doing this work because of the travel, the time away from home, the lack of child care and the need to be there for their kids. I know this reality well, as someone who did this work for nine years without kids and now for four years with my twins. It is not easy and that is an understatement.

Right now I have to be in Ottawa. My partner, a veteran, is finishing his education degree and is just starting his teaching placement in the semi-remote Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation, a first nation community outside of our home in Thompson. I do not have child care here in Ottawa and I have to leave my kids, one of whom is sick, with my parents in Winnipeg so that I can be here today. It is not rocket science. One of the ways of making Parliament accessible to women, and to all parents, is by ensuring a hybrid Parliament.

Let us also get in line with so many workplaces, including the federal public service, where virtual work and hybrid work are seen as the legitimate, effective work that they are. We have done this before. We did it for a year and a half and it worked. We can do this.

Finally, let us be clear. A hybrid Parliament is necessary as we face a climate emergency. Climate change is here. It is wreaking havoc across our country and around the world. COP26 made clear that we need to drastically cut our greenhouse gas emissions. We must drastically cut our carbon footprint here in Canada. We know that Canada's climate record is the worst of the G7 nations', and time is running out. We must end subsidies to oil and gas. We must cancel the TMX pipeline and new fossil fuel infrastructure. We must phase out the burning of fossil fuels and move to green energy, and we must stand with land protectors such as those on Wet'suwet'en territory. We must invest in a green new deal.

We must also find immediate ways to cut down our carbon footprint. With a hybrid Parliament, we do not all have to fly back and forth every week from every corner of the country. Let us not forget that our work is rooted in our communities. It is driven by the people we represent. It is time we work in a Parliament that reflects today's reality. A hybrid model allows us to stay rooted in our home communities and regions. This is the way of the future.

I propose that Parliament strike a committee to find ways to modernize Parliament, including having a permanent hybrid Parliament: a Parliament in tune with today's reality and the immense challenges we face. Let us put aside the anti-science, COVID-conspiracy-driven politics and the 19th-century family model that continues to set women back. Let us face today's reality of climate change and find ways to do our work in a better way.

The choice is clear between a 19th-century vision of Parliament and a 21st-century vision of Parliament. We can do this. Let us be on the right side of history.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Speaker, I apologize because I was only able to catch the last half of my colleague's speech, but even in that short time, she had some very important points, particularly about trying to increase representation in the House and trying to make this place accessible, particularly for women with children. I know my fiancée and I have had conversations. We try to look at what we will do when the time comes. It is going to be a very difficult balance for us as parents.

There have been conversations in the House today about not doing parliamentary work. I can say my constituents actually quite enjoyed seeing me at home, present in the communities, but also seeing me participating online virtually. Could the member opposite speak to her own experience of how she was able to contribute through virtual means? I presume she will still want to be in this place, but will she perhaps take the opportunity when needed, for health reasons or otherwise, to participate in this fashion?

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Madam Speaker, I would say first of all that I think all of us as MPs who were here in the previous Parliament found ways to fight for our constituents during a time of crisis, and we made Parliament work. I will also say what I heard from constituents. As many know, our part of the country was particularly vulnerable. It had heavy travel and lockdown restrictions. One of the things I never heard constituents say was, “I miss seeing you in Ottawa”. Nobody said that. People wanted to know that I was there and that our team was there fighting for them. They saw that work happening online, on social media, through our ongoing communication and through the visits I was able to do. That is the kind of work that we need to continue doing because, first of all, we are still in a pandemic. Second of all, this is the smart way of doing this work: rooted in our communities and continuing to fight for the people we represent.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Madam Speaker, I agree with my friend that we all have unique circumstances that we deal with when trying to do this job. I would also argue that, in fact, an election is a chance to apply for a job. Someone is asking constituents to vote for them to do a job, and the job is in Ottawa. My friend mentioned in her speech that she did the job for a number of years without kids. I recognize as a parent myself that there are challenges. We also understand what the job entails. Leading up to an election, people always make a choice about what job they are going to apply for. If someone is going to stand for re-election, they stand knowing all of the challenges.

However, I also heard my friend in the NDP say something we have been hearing that is opposite from the Liberals. The Liberals have been saying all day that a hybrid Parliament is to be used in extreme circumstances, but now my friend from the NDP, who is supporting the Liberals, is saying it is to be used whenever someone does not feel like coming to Ottawa. A clarification would be nice.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Madam Speaker, once again we hear more conspiracy theories from the Conservatives. The party is clearly comfortable with conspiracy theories.

Let us be clear. The work of a hybrid Parliament, including a virtual component, is real work. To say otherwise is simply not true. It is also disrespectful to many people, including public servants and many others who have been doing virtual work throughout this pandemic. This is a safe way of doing this work, and it has to be a way of going forward.

We have major challenges ahead of us, and we need to find ways to do this work safely, effectively, in a cost-saving manner and a way that respects our environment. A hybrid Parliament is very much the way to do that. I invite the member to get on board with that vision.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Madam Speaker, first, I would like to acknowledge how much I admire my esteemed colleague, who has twins. I just had a baby barely two months ago. I went into politics with my eyes open, knowing that the job would involve a lot of travel and would come at a cost to my family. I also knew that a member's work had to be done in Parliament, because that is what we were elected to do.

I have a question for my colleague. Are we turning an emergency measure into a work-life balance measure, which is a very important issue but one that should be discussed at another time?

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate the member on the birth of her child. I would also like to welcome her to Parliament and warn her that it is rather difficult to do this job when one has small children, and that goes for both mothers and fathers.

We really need to modernize the way Parliament works so that members do not have to choose between being a parent and fighting for their constituents. The traditional model of Parliament is based on an outdated image of the family. We need to modernize the way we work. Having more women MPs in the House is not the only way to achieve that, but it is certainly important.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Madam Speaker, having the option for a virtual hybrid parliament is a no-brainer in a pandemic, so rather than start off my speech describing the obvious reasons why we would want to protect our fellow members of Parliament, our staff, our families and our communities, I am going to talk about some of the other reasons why a virtual parliament could be supportive in the House.

I am the MP who represents the beautiful riding of Victoria in British Columbia. I am also a new mom to the light of my life, my daughter Alora. She is seven months old. From door to door, our commute is about 10 hours. There are no direct flights. Mostly we are lucky to take two flights, but the past few times there have been three in a row. Travelling back and forth with a seven-month-old is not easy. In the past few months, she has been on 12 different planes. In normal times that would be exhausting, but in a pandemic it is also nerve-racking.

Beyond the big worry that flying here might put her at risk, I have also been thinking about what happens when she gets a cold. Last month, she got a really bad cold, then my partner and I got it and we were coughing for about two weeks straight. Luckily, our multiple COVID tests were negative, but we would not have been able to get on a plane if we needed to because we were symptomatic. Anyone who has raised little ones knows that they are constantly getting runny noses, coughs and mild fevers. Also, their immune systems are still developing. Babies who are teething often get fevers. Alora's two front teeth are just starting to come in, and if she has a fever we cannot fly. We would be stuck in Victoria, far across the country on Vancouver Island. A virtual Parliament for me would mean I could still work, even if I was stuck in Victoria unable to fly because she is still breastfeeding, has caught a mild cold or has a teething fever.

That is now. When I was pregnant this past year, if it had not been for a virtual Parliament, I would not have been able to work for months in the latter part of my pregnancy when I was unable to fly. Instead, I was able to continue working into my ninth month of pregnancy. Not every woman wants to do that, but every woman deserves the choice. Women deserve the choice to participate. They should not have to face institutional barriers. I am sad to say that despite the gains we have made, we still face many of them. The vast majority of the members of Parliament here are men. The House of Commons was built by men, for men, and we have a long way to go if we want equal access, equal participation and equity for Alora's generation.

If we want to encourage more young women to run, one important step is to make sure that Parliament is more family-friendly. One small example is that there is one family room here at Parliament. There are at least three moms with babies. Because of COVID, only one family can be in the family room at a time. That means when one of the other moms has booked that room, I breastfeed and pump in the quiet room: the room for meditation and quiet reflection. There is no lock on the door to the quiet room, so I have had MPs come in even though I barricaded the door. It has been awkward and funny, but there are small changes that we could make that would make life less challenging for new moms. It would be great to have more family rooms. It would be great to have a private place to change into my pumping gear or to take my baby when she needs a nap, and a fridge to store breast milk in. Those would be small changes that would make a small difference.

Do members know what would make a huge difference? The option for a virtual Parliament. Women in every sector have taken on more during this pandemic. Whether through the loss of employment, additional child care challenges, increased unpaid labour at home or increased care for elderly family members, women have borne the brunt of this pandemic.

We need to address the barriers that women face across Canada. We need to especially address these barriers for women who face additional barriers: women who are single moms, indigenous women, racialized women, trans women, queer women and women with disabilities. We need these women in Parliament to help us make laws because we know that representation matters. It is not guaranteed, but people who have lived the experience of barriers are much more likely to fight to reduce those barriers.

Every chance I get, I encourage young women to get involved in politics, to put their names forward to run for elected office. However, when I am talking to women about running to be an MP, it is a hard sell to women with young kids, women from B.C. I have to be honest with them about the challenges. Being a mom is a demanding job, and that is just on its own. Being an MP is a demanding job just on its own. Doing them at the same time is beyond challenging. I accept that and am committed to rising to those challenges, but what is unacceptable to me is that MPs could make the House more family friendly but they choose not to.

What is unacceptable to me is when I hear MPs in this debate say that those who want a hybrid Parliament want it because we do not want to come to work. I want to come to work. I want a hybrid Parliament so that when my daughter gets sick and I am stuck in Victoria, I can still participate. I want a hybrid Parliament so that pregnant MPs have the choice to keep working. I want a hybrid Parliament so that when I am talking to young women, I can tell them honestly that things are changing, that MPs in the House are working to make Parliament more accessible and more family friendly.

I want to take a moment to express a huge thanks to my partner James. Without his support, love and incredible parenting, I would not be here. I also want to thank our parents, Alora’s grandparents, and our community. It takes a village, and I would not be able to do this without them.

I want to thank my campaign team and my staff too. Running in an election with a baby and being an MP with a baby are tough, and I am so lucky to have amazing people on my team and in my community.

My partner James is also a huge advocate for a hybrid Parliament. He is on parental leave and is caring for our daughter. He is bringing her to Parliament for breastfeeding or just so I can see her in our 14-hour days when we have emergency debates and late nights. He wants a hybrid Parliament because it would maybe give us a bit more time in Victoria. When we are in Victoria, we have a community supporting us, with grandparents' support and someone to hold the baby when he needs to sleep because he has been up all night with her. It would give us the option of a bit more balance. It would give us peace of mind about making choices to reduce risk to my daughter.

I have heard some members in this debate speak as if the pandemic is over. However, while we are making great progress with vaccines, the pandemic is not over. We have continued to see outbreaks, and countries in Europe that are facing rising cases and hospitalizations are once again implementing lockdown policies. Having a hybrid Parliament in place right now would ensure that whatever happens in the coming weeks and months, Parliament can continue to function.

The pandemic has had devastating impacts. COVID-19 has killed around 30,000 people in Canada and five million people around the world. We should all pause and reflect on these victims. We should reflect on how we can work together to take every measure possible to end the pandemic.

This motion is a continuation of the measures that have already collectively been taken by members of Parliament, measures that were taken unanimously because we all understood that we are in a public health emergency. It is the right thing to do to keep everyone safe; to protect not just members of Parliament but their families, their staff and the employees on Parliament Hill; and to protect the communities that we go home to.

Without a hybrid Parliament, someone who might have symptoms of COVID, tests positive or needs to quarantine will not have the chance to bring concerns forward. I am worried that without hybrid Parliament, they may to be tempted to show up anyway and put other MPs at risk, put their families at risk—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I am sorry but the member is out of time.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Kildonan—St. Paul.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it was very special to see my hon. colleague with her beautiful baby. I want to congratulate her on showing that mothers can do both.

My hon. colleague is taking issue with some colleagues in the House who are arguing that they do not want virtual Parliament because people do not want to come to work. The problem is that for basically the length of the pandemic, there was one Liberal member of Parliament in the House. Not all the other ones had COVID or were having babies. There was one member of Parliament here.

Is the member comfortable with that? Does she think it is acceptable that people can just choose, for whatever reason, not to come? She made really good arguments for childbirth and other things, but there was one Liberal member in the House, no others, and I personally did not find that acceptable.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we need to ensure that all members of Parliament are participating. I was able, in Parliament, to go to committee, question cabinet ministers in question period and question the Prime Minister. We can continue to do that.

This motion is not saying that we would be going back to the exact same measures, with limitations on the number of people in the House. Every member can come, and we will see more members in the House. However, having the option for a virtual Parliament is an important step right now to keep people safe. It also has all of these other benefits that are so vital.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate you on your appointment.

I thank my colleague from Victoria for her speech. Before I ask my question, I have to tell her that Alora is absolutely adorable. I listened closely to the member's speech. If we were not debating under a gag order in a pandemic, I would have roundly applauded what she said about work-life balance.

However, the issue is that when we look around, there is often only one government member in the House. As far as I know, unless they are very secretive, none of the other members have a seven-month-old baby. My question is this: Does the member feel as though the situation we are discussing should be the exception even though the motion applies to everyone?

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, right now we are in a pandemic, and this motion is a continuation of what we already agreed to unanimously. We agreed that we are in a public health emergency. We need to do everything in our power to keep people safe.

We also need to make sure that we are protecting the health and safety of members of Parliament, our staff, families and communities. This is one of the reasons I am supporting this motion. However, for me as a new mom, it is not just these considerations. We also need to see this as an opportunity to make Parliament more family friendly, to break down barriers and to support women in the House.