Debates of June 19th, 2023

Canada Business Corporations Act

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Madam Speaker, as always, it is an honour to be able to enter into debate on the important issues that Canadians are facing in this country and, specifically, those issues that impact Battle River—Crowfoot.

However, I was celebrated, along with so many in this place and fathers across this country, this past weekend on Sunday, as our nation recognized fathers. If I could for a brief moment, before I get into the substance of what is a very substantive debate, I would just like to pass along my greetings, officially on the record, to my father, all fathers across the country and those grandfathers who have impacted us. Although I do not have grandfathers alive anymore, I know the significant role they played in my life. I wish a happy belated Father's Day to all the fathers represented across our country from coast to coast to coast.

We are debating Bill C-42 here this evening. Although, unfortunately, it seems that the government did some tricky manoeuvring to change the debate from Bill C-18 to Bill C-42, this is an important issue that bears fulsome and comprehensive discussion in this place.

I will back up a bit and talk about something that is probably not on the radar of many Canadians, because when it comes to the idea of money laundering, most Canadians do not really understand the significance of what it is. For example, I know the Panama papers are part of the discussion that has surrounded this bill in particular. I will enlighten us on the challenge that brought us to the point that we would be debating this here this evening. I will then get into what is proposed and where I think some additional items need to be challenged, discussed and addressed, when it comes to the larger issue of what the bill is trying to accomplish.

Most people who have spent much time watching Hollywood movies will have heard of the Cayman Islands, Switzerland or other jurisdictions that are known for hiding money. Criminal enterprises, gangs and thugs store money there, access it in a secretive manner and ensure they could take dirty money that was earned by some nefarious process, whether that be the sale of something illegal, the proceeds of crime or whatever the case is. They go through a process where the money comes out, and it might not be clean on the other side, but at least it is not traceable to the original way that it was earned. This is why we call it “laundering”.

Things like the Panama papers and other news articles make headlines on occasion, and specifically, they often only make headlines when there are significant figures that are involved. This may happen if there is a businessperson or a politician who has some notoriety and is named in these sorts of releases. However, one of the really unfortunate realities is that Canada has become a place where we are known for being able to have money laundering take place.

That is incredibly concerning, especially in a world where digital technology, artificial intelligence and the dynamics associated with some of these things are incredibly complex. We have not had a great deal of time to discuss artificial intelligence in this place. The fact that Canada has become something of a safe haven for money laundering and the proceeds of crime is incredibly concerning.

Some of those proceeds would be from criminal activities that take place on Canadian soil, but the unfortunate signal that has been sent to the criminal enterprises that exist around the world is that Canada seems to be the place where one can see money laundered, regardless of where those proceeds are from. This is something that definitely needs to be addressed.

This has a few unintended consequences as well that I think bear mentioning. Just to highlight for those watching, one of the things that has been highlighted that would be a possible way to see this happen is through the purchase of real estate. At a time when we already have some of the lowest per capita housing availability in the developed world, it is incredibly concerning that some of the pressures that exist there would be for purposes that are nefarious and certainly not benefiting Canadians for the pricing structure that exists. Especially when we have a price point that is determined in a market that is not based on the product and its availability, laundering artificially inflates it. This is something that definitely needs to be addressed.

That is the problem. Now we have Bill C-42, which is a step in the right direction to address some of those things. The question is whether it goes far enough, and I will get to the ways that I do not think it does. However, it does address some of the challenges and attempts to ensure that some of the currently existing loopholes that allow Canada to be this safe haven, as I mentioned, are addressed.

One thing is to ensure that there is greater accountability for those who are purchasing businesses that have those large financial interests in this country. The reason this is important is to ensure that there is that registry and that ability to have accountability at every stage of the corporate process. For those who have no reason to hide their actions, of course, this is not something that will concern them. There may be some reporting requirements through financial institutions and whatnot, but if a person is not doing anything wrong, these burdens are not something that would be part of the daily life of the accounting of a business's operations; that is valuable.

When it comes to the fines, and we have certainly heard a lot about the fines as we have had debate about this issue, there would be an increase in the penalties, both monetary penalties and possible prison sentences. Certainly, I think that is important, although I will note the irony that it seems as though the Liberals have this habit of being soft on crime in many regards, but they want to send a signal through the legislation, it would seem, that Canada is willing to get tough when it comes to white-collar crime. However, there are certainly some challenges when it comes to the crime that is affecting so many Canadians.

There are a number of aspects that build on some of the actions that have been taken by the previous Conservative government under Prime Minister Stephen Harper, which saw this as a challenge and started to make some of those changes. Notably, back in 2014, I believe, there were some significant changes that the Harper government made to ensure that it would tighten up some of the areas that were loopholes at that point in time. A number of steps have been taken over the last number of years.

I believe my colleague for Wellington—Halton Hills said it well when he talked about a chain being only as strong as its weakest link. We are seeing that there could be some holes plugged in the challenges that Canada faces when it comes to money laundering. However, it is fundamentally important to ensure that we do not stop here.

A lot of this discussion took place at committee, and I know folks who are watching are interested in seeing some of that. The work that the committee did highlighted some opportunities that existed in terms of strengthening this legislation, and we saw a few amendments pass. However, a whole host of other amendments could have made this legislation stronger.

To address some of this strange occurrence that happens increasingly with the government, it seems to be quick to rush everything through, because it is a crisis. This is unfortunate; as it is rushing things through, it often ends up having to go back and fix the challenges or the gaps that could and should have been addressed in the earlier stages of the process. At the industry committee, there were some challenges brought up, including from some senior public servants who were concerned about the possibility of challenges when it comes to implementation. There are privacy concerns that the Liberals have to address, and this is simply another part of those areas.

To conclude, it is incumbent on us all in this place to do our utmost to ensure that every bill that comes forward is debated thoroughly and that we have engagement from the affected stakeholders. When it comes to something like this, it may not be on the forefront of many Canadians' minds, but it is fundamentally important that we get it right, so that we can stop Canada from being a safe haven for money laundering in this world.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo.

My colleague spoke with a great deal of knowledge on this point. I can see he represents his constituents well for a relatively young MP, compared with people in mid-life like me; I am at the tender age of almost 45 now. I said I was 44 the other day, and I heard about it.

Money laundering has had both a pervasive and a significant impact. I will ask my colleague this: Could he comment on how his riding of Battle River—Crowfoot has perhaps been, maybe not directly impacted, but impacted generally by these types of things?

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Madam Speaker, I appreciated being called “young” in this place, although with the rate my hair is turning grey, I am not sure if that is more the job or my age.

I can highlight how this would specifically impact my constituents, although this would not be unique in the context of this discussion. Most people do not understand the intricacies of major business operations, how a corporate registry would affect them, how that would affect the accounting of major multinationals or what reporting requirements banks have.

For example, if the average Canadian were asked on the street what FINTRAC is, most people would probably not know. However, this all has to do with Canadians having confidence in our economy to be able to purchase anything, to go into a bank and trust the fact that the institution is going to have security on its deposits and to ensure that our law enforcement is able not only to pull somebody over for speeding but also make sure that there are consequences for serious crimes, such as laundering money from the proceeds of crime.

This comes back to the very basic principle of ensuring that there is trust in our institutions.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would first like to say how disappointed I am with Bell Canada's decision to eliminate jobs back home, in my region, particularly in Rimouski. One of the people who lost his job was an experienced journalist, Martin Brassard. He has 35 years' experience and worked for the Énergie radio station, which he left recently, and then for Rouge FM in Rimouski.

Local and regional information is vital to the development of our communities and also to the health of our democracy. I hope that the government will listen to reason and put in place the solution proposed by the Bloc Québécois of creating a special fund to support regional media.

Members know that the Bloc Québécois supports Bill C-42 because it seeks to foster transparency. We have heard much about the Panama Papers. Is it normal that there are whistle-blowers and people hiding behind corporations, but that we do not have any information about this? Does my colleague agree that there should be more transparency in corporations?

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Madam Speaker, there is a lot to address. I will try to get to all three points.

We need to strengthen whistle-blower protections in this country. That is absolutely essential to ensure that those who are taking risks, whether they are professional risks, risks to the possibility of advancement or sometimes even further risks than that, have those protections. Certainly, I have talked at length about that at the ethics committee here in Parliament.

When it comes to transparency and the need for it, this is absolutely and fundamentally important. That comes back to my response to the previous question. Most Canadians may not understand the intricacies associated with multinational business operations and why money laundering may affect them, but when it comes to trust in our institutions, every Canadian feels that. Unfortunately, we have seen an erosion of trust in the institutions that we all count on.

When it comes to job losses in the member's constituency, I hear his concerns. When the Keystone XL pipeline was cancelled by President Biden, and the Prime Minister refused to do anything about it, I had to face 2,000 constituents who got pink slips. They lost their jobs because of the inaction and political indifference of a party that has wanted to shut down the largest economic driver in our country. I hear that member and the pain associated with so many individuals who face the personal crisis of a job loss, especially when it is a surprise. We need to do more in this country to ensure that we create a business environment that allows for prosperity.

Certainly, the member for Carleton has talked about everything that we have been talking about. We are working diligently to ensure that we can be a country that fosters prosperity again. Together we can do that and bring it home.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to speak about Bill C-42 today. It is an honour for me not only because I am speaking on behalf of the good people of Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola but also because it also gives me a chance to recall some of my work as a member of the finance committee in 2017, where we did an extensive review of the money-laundering regime in Canada as it relates to not only money laundering but also to the financing of terrorism.

Let me give a quick shout-out to the former chair of that finance committee, the Hon. Wayne Easter, who basically said that we should travel to places like London and Washington as part of it. I was a member of Parliament who was quite skeptical of junkets in all their forms, but he told me that he thought it was important for the committee to do that, and some of the best testimony we received as a committee on how Canada is seen in the world with respect to things like money laundering was absolutely correct. I have to thank the Hon. Wayne Easter for those observations, because it really showed that Canada is an outlier, and for all the wrong reasons.

We have seen Transparency International talk year after year about how we are slowly becoming a country where money laundering has become a problem. We were once very respected under the Transparency International regime.

Those 2017 recommendations from the committee still stand. It was an all-party report. The Liberals, Conservatives, Bloc members and New Democrats participated in the report and came to many unanimous recommendations, partly as a result of those trips and experiences, because we saw very clearly that Canada had a lot to achieve.

Coming back to Bill C-42, there are a number of things missing from this legislation. For example, recommendation 10 from the 2017 report refers to a rule in the United States.

It states:

That the Government of Canada make it a criminal offence for an entity or individual to structure transactions in a manner designated to avoid reporting requirements. These provisions would be modelled on Title 31 of U.S. code section 5324.

What that means is that while this will capture some of the significant control of a particular corporation's holdings so that someone would be able to find out who had significant control of an asset, such as a piece of real estate, it operates only after the fact. Only then can law enforcement start to draw evidence together to link a particular group, such as organized crime or a terrorism group, with a group of accountants or business owners and lawyers, and through that web be able to trace exactly who is connected to whom and be able to start pulling on those threads.

The Americans have taken a much more proactive approach by making it a crime to help someone to structure their affairs to avoid transparency. This is quite important. While there are many measures in the Criminal Code, it is important that we look at Canada. One of the outcomes of the report is that the legal community is still not within the FINTRAC regime. While we have seen an expansion in recent years, I think partly because of our report regarding FINTRAC, we still do not see everything included, such as lawyers.

Members may ask why that is important. It is because they are the very professionals who structure those affairs so that the money can be laundered in Canada, so I think it is an area still worthy of investigation.

Let us go to the beneficial ownership registry itself. When we went to the United Kingdom, one of the things that struck me there is that it has this beneficial ownership registry online. It is free, and there is very limited information.

First of all, I do not think most Canadians will go to a beneficial ownership registry. There is always a temptation to see what one's neighbour owns and, of course, there could be some abuses that way, but essentially, the people who would be looking at this are law enforcement and Canada Revenue Agency employees working on files that are related to the matter of money laundering. It is absolutely critical that those law enforcement officials, people who are lawfully accessing it for investigate purposes, be able to do so quickly.

However, this registry would only carry just a sliver. Again, for the people at home saying that a beneficial registry sounds good to them, it would only be for those corporations that are registered under the Canada Business Corporations Act. As someone who has lived in British Columbia my whole life, I will say that, from speaking to many lawyers, I know that the bulk of solicitors' work is when they are processing real estate and updating the registry of which a company is kept, and most of that action happens provincially.

As my colleague from Wellington—Halton Hills recently said, this particular measure might offer some good points, but it is only as strong as the weakest link. If we have 10 different registries, we may end up in the tyranny of small differences.

We could take health care as an example. Not all health care information is delivered to the Public Health Agency of Canada in a uniform manner. We find that fax machines are still being used. If one province only gives information under certain forms, it is then very difficult to aggregate that to get a whole picture.

The government, just as it has done in previous agreements with provinces, comes to an agreement on principle, but when it comes time to do the work, unfortunately it does not seem to have a true consensus. I will just harken back to the Canada free trade agreement, which apparently all parties sided with. Half of it was exemptions. One may agree in principle with something, but when it comes to the operability of what comes out of something, it seems that the government is only looking for the big announcement. In this case, it is a beneficial ownership registry that would be transparent.

Again, if it is only a sliver of the activity and it does not necessarily create a uniformity of interoperable registries where everyone can funnel the same information and have aggregated information that is the same, meaning that it is always going have the same basics available, one is going to have that tyranny of small differences. When someone is looking for that information, the last thing we want to do is end up where we do not supply the information to law enforcement in a straight, one-stop shop.

I should also point out that in the U.K., the so-called transparency model has some caveats. When I was at committee, I asked officials about this, and they did say that for persons under 18, their information would not be shared, which probably is for the best, although I would ask how someone under the age of 18 would end up with significant control over a Canadian asset, but we will leave that for another time. Also, there would be exemptions on a case-by-case basis. In the U.K., politicians and celebrities are often taken off. This creates, just like all government systems, a system where someone who is working the registry is now making choices about who is included and who is not.

It is an honour for me to step forward here, and it was an honour to serve on the finance committee. This is an area where I think we can do more. As the Prime Minister likes to say, better is always possible. Unfortunately, we will just have to take what we can get today and hope that a new Conservative government would do the hard work with provinces so that we could really clamp down on money laundering.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Madam Speaker, there are a couple of themes I have heard in Conservative speeches about this bill. One is that the ownership threshold is too high at 25%. I think one of the awkward tensions with another line of Conservative argument is that the 25% standard is actually present in most of the provincial registries that currently obtain. I think part of the goal of starting with a 25% ownership threshold was to have more congruence with existing provincial systems.

My concern is that, as we try to resolve these tensions between, as the member rightly pointed out, the importance of collaborating with the provinces and some of the things we might like to see as more stringent requirements in the legislation but that are not congruent with the existing provincial situation, the clock is ticking. There are folks, like Putin's buddies, who are hiding money here in Canada and whom a public beneficial ownership registry would help pursue.

It is not perfect legislation, but can we get the legislation passed before summer in order to ensure that we can begin doing the work to bring those folks to justice?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Madam Speaker, that is a very reasonable question. Again, we are essentially putting a line in the sand with this 25% threshold. Let us be clear: It is arbitrary, and it is following the provinces rather than leading on the arguments. Being able to say who is involved and who has significant control over large assets in Canada, particularly from a law enforcement perspective, is quite important.

We have seen that some of the lawyers, accountants and other professionals who have been compromised in this area will use every planning tool possible to evade scrutiny, which is why I made the suggestion that we should follow suit by making it a Criminal Code infringement for those who structure their clients' assets in such a way as to evade transparency. Those are the mechanisms.

While my colleague and I may not agree on the 25% threshold and on whether the federal government is showing leadership, I do understand his point that we need to get moving. I also think we need to send a signal to those who operate in this space that it will not be tolerated.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Madam Speaker, in his speech, my colleague spoke about certain loopholes, particularly with regard to individuals who facilitate money laundering. I am referring to lawyers, notaries and other professionals.

Would my colleague agree that, at some point, we should also legislate so that there is less of an incentive to support businesses and individuals involved in money laundering?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Madam Speaker, this is an important issue for Canadians, who understand that the crime rate in this country is high right now. It is also important that the federal government make clear the consequences of criminal activity.

I think that the federal government needs to introduce a new crime bill to crack down on fraud and crime.

I appreciate the member's question. This is how we can convey that to professionals. I also think a reference to the Supreme Court, as was laid out in the 2017 FINA study, so we can clarify what protections there are—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

I would like to give one more member the opportunity to ask a question.

The hon. member for Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola for his very substantive speech tonight. Can he share with the House how his constituents feel about ending money laundering? What do the great people of Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola think the government should be doing to provide more transparency and accountability as it relates to money laundering?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Madam Speaker, simply put, British Columbians have heard a lot of politicians talk and talk when it comes to money laundering. We have had the Cullen commission, which seemed to talk about many of the activities, but we seem to see a dearth of action from both the federal and provincial governments.

There have been some improvements in casinos. As B.C.'s casinos tightened up, a lot more suspicious activity went on in Ontario. This requires leadership from the federal government. My constituents believe in the law. They want to see the laws enforced.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Speaker, before I begin my speech, I want to pay tribute to the people back home, especially those who are helping to fight the wildfires. The town of Normétal has been spared so far, but it is important to mention that the situation there is now critical. As of tomorrow, we are expecting really dry weather. The firebreaks put in place by the SOPFEU should hold, but there is a chance that there will not be enough resources to keep the flames at bay if new fires break out.

I therefore want to say thank you to all the responder units. I am thinking especially of the firefighters from New Brunswick. One of them, Bruno Pelletier, whose name has been in the news, explained all the operational details to me, for example, how a firefighting team takes action on the ground. It is rather impressive to see how they are able to deploy not just to Abitibi-Témiscamingue but anywhere in North America. I want to commend them for their courage, and I am very grateful to them for being there to help with what is to come, because we are still on high alert. We will just have to wait and see what happens in my region and others, obviously.

I am rising to talk about Bill C-42 and how vitally important it is. The bill amends the Canada Business Corporations Act and makes consequential and related amendments to other acts.

I want to begin by noting that this bill is long overdue. It is the result of federal-provincial agreements reached in 2017 and 2018 about collecting and sharing information. During those negotiations, all parties agreed to amend their laws on business corporations to ensure they would remain harmonized. Ultimately, this will make us more effective in the fight against money laundering and terrorism.

Information in the registry of one province is automatically recognized in another, thanks to the similarity of our laws. However, it is important to note that Quebec recently made changes to its law in 2021, through Bill 78, and it is expected that the other provinces will follow suit. Bill 78 contains provisions to create a beneficial ownership registry and make it public.

However, this amendment to Bill C-42 does not stem from an agreement with the provinces and is not intended to maintain this harmonization. It is poorly timed. Obviously, we opposed it in committee.

We need to recognize the importance of maintaining cohesion and respecting the process done previously. I commend the leadership of the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry, because he was able to put together a bill that took into account harmonization and the priority of the provinces in something like this. As a result, the debates are less tedious, and harmonizaton is easier to achieve in this kind of context. What is more, Bill C‑42 went through rather quickly at the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology, despite some rather constructive amendments on both sides.

The market relies on investor confidence and that confidence is directly tied to the transparency and good governance of corporations. Businesses also have to fully understand the purpose of the changes made to the business registry.

By passing Bill C‑42, we are strengthening the principles of corporate governance, not only to the benefit of shareholders, but also in the interest of the public as a whole. The whole notion of a registry that will enable us to do searches is something that is very important. We received witnesses from the RCMP who came to tell us how a tool like this could help them in their work, which is far from trivial.

This bill is much more than a simple administrative measure. That is why I am urging my colleagues to move forward with it as soon as possible. The House is about to rise for the summer. It would be really unfortunate if the bill were to die on the Order Paper, because the future is hard to predict at this stage. This is an opportunity to fight organized crime, money laundering and the financing of terrorism.

By strengthening our legal framework, we are creating an environment that is less conducive to illegal activities and that helps protect our fellow citizens and financial institutions. As a result, by rejecting the amendments that threaten the harmonization of the legislation, we are sending a clear message—and that is what the Bloc Québécois has done—that we are determined to fight these scourges and preserve the integrity of our financial system. Obviously, that is the basis of our economy. Maintaining a strong economy depends first and foremost on trust and predictability, as well as on robust laws that are not easily circumvented.

To say that this bill was necessary is an understatement. I wonder why it took so long to present it in the House. A consensus could have been reached in the previous Parliament, or even in the one before that.

It is vital to recognize that corporate governance principles are important for the proper functioning of the market. By encouraging transparency, accountability and informed decision-making, we are bolstering investor confidence and promoting long-term financial stability. We must ensure that our companies have a transparent governance structure that allows for informed, responsible decisions not only in the interest of shareholders, but also in the interest of the Canadian public, obviously. However, shareholder interests are not trivial.

Legislative amendments must never be taken lightly. They have a ripple effect on our entire economic system. If we throw the harmonization of our legislation off balance, we could create disparities and needless obstacles for our companies. This could slow economic growth, discourage investment and detract from the ability of Quebec and Canada to compete internationally.

We are at a pivotal moment. We need to pass Bill C-42 in its current form, after the amendments that were adopted by the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology. I am not talking about the one we are debating right now, which essentially strikes me as a waste of valuable parliamentary time. In fact, I hope that the voters of Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount are watching our debates right now and will think about this before going to the polls at the last minute. Maybe it will make them think twice about supporting the Conservatives, if they were tempted to do so.

Passing this bill would be an illustration of our commitment to combatting organized crime and terrorist financing, as well as promoting sound corporate governance principles. We will continue to work with the provinces and stakeholders to maintain harmonized legislation and ensure market fluidity.

We must seize this opportunity and take action. Bill C-42 is a positive measure for Quebeckers and Canadians. It is essential that we commit to passing it, recognizing the importance of transparency, corporate governance and co-operation with the provinces to maintain legislation that can provide a robust mechanism to combat money laundering and catch fraudsters.

Together we can strengthen our economy, protect Quebeckers and Canadians, and promote a fairer and more prosperous society for all.

When I think about studying this bill in committee, I think about the day we received the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry. We were able to question him about a number of things, including how this fight against organized crime is being conducted. I asked questions about how much it costs to fight organized crime, but also how much it costs to not fight organized crime. The figures are staggering. I think that in a society like ours, when we are fighting, when we see the forest fires, when we see the consequences for the economy, when we are forced to keep investing in tax credits for oil companies, I think we are fooling ourselves economically. We need to be able to refocus our investments responsibly. That means having the means to match our ambitions. If we want to make this economic transition a success, we are going to have to come up with the money to do it. That money can be found in tax havens.

We have lists of corporations, but the problem is that we do not know who the real owners of these corporations are. One corporation belongs to another corporation, which also belongs to another corporation and so forth. That is often the problem in the financial world. Who is the true owner? It is all very well to say that there is an ecosystem of 120 or 150 countries that are working together and sharing data, but the fact remains that the threat continues to be that we do not know who the real owners are.

There are companies that want to open mines and process minerals in a region such as mine. However, there is a risk, because a Chinese mining company whose ownership is unknown will have particular interests, and perhaps its sole objective will be to take over our resources and process them in China so they can keep them, or to thwart Canadian companies' growth in order to maintain a monopoly and keep the price of raw materials high.

At some point, there must be a paradigm shift. We must be able to determine who really owns corporations if we are to make the changes needed in our society. Clearly, money has a certain value in our democracy. If we want to continue providing quality social services, we have to go and get the money back from where it is stashed, by fighting against money laundering and tax havens.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. As a member of the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology, I helped analyze this bill. Obviously, it is a very important bill, considering that it aligns with the provinces' legislation, as my colleague pointed out. I would like to ask him a question.

My colleague mentioned Bill 78, which was adopted in Quebec in 2022 or 2021, with respect to the beneficial ownership registry. I would like him to tell me how the legislation we are about to pass aligns with Bill 78. Obviously, no one can object to the value and importance of catching fraudsters, who are unfortunately present in Canada, and more so in some provinces than in others. I think that fraud is a major problem in British Columbia, although it exists in Quebec too.

As a law-abiding business person who follows the rules, I agree with the importance of laws that help us catch fraudsters. I would like my colleague to talk to me about the importance of ensuring that the two bills are interoperable.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my esteemed colleague for his intervention and his hard work in committee standing up for the interests of Quebec. We do not always see eye to eye on what is best for Quebec, but I think that we are certainly strong voices for standing up for these interests.

As members know, in February 2020, the Government of Quebec announced its intention to create a registry. Bill 78 was introduced in the National Assembly in June 2020 and was passed in December of the same year. To answer my colleague's question, there were provisions to create this registry of beneficial owners and make it public.

What are the challenges involved in bringing in such a registry and harmonizing it with those of the other provinces? That will become clear over time. If we are careful and create legislation based on what the provinces have already created, then we are more likely to achieve harmonization. There will no doubt be some bumps along the way, but solutions might present themselves.

I think that in a context like this, the provinces have jurisdiction. It is essential that the federal government build on what the provinces are doing and not fight what the provinces are doing. I think that is one of the intentions. Obviously, in Bill C‑42 before us, information sharing and transparency are fundamental.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I think that we see eye to eye when it comes to fighting tax evasion and the misuse of tax havens. We are on the same wavelength.

The federal government is doing something it has never done before. The Canada Revenue Agency now measures what is known as the “tax gap”, meaning the difference between the tax revenue it should be collecting from individuals and companies, and what it actually collects. It calculated that in 2022, Canada's tax gap was $23.4 billion.

Our shortfall is $23.4 billion. I would like my colleague to tell us what he thinks the Liberal government should do to go after that money.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I recognize the member for Rosemont—La Petite‑Patrie's leadership on the issue of fighting tax havens. It is not the first time I have heard him speaking about this in the House of Commons. I also want to highlight the commitment of my colleague, the member for Joliette.

This is a fundamental matter. We must be able to take much more robust action. According to Statistics Canada, Canadian corporations invested $381 billion in the top 12 tax havens in 2019. That represents almost one-third of all Canadian foreign investment.

It is all well and good for the minister to tell us that more and more countries are becoming our allies, that they are working on the same things as we are and that we will have a common registry. The fact remains that if our wealthiest corporations and individuals, who do not care about the common good of society, invest in the 12 most notorious tax havens in the world, we will not make progress.

The first thing that needs to be done is to go and get our money where it is hiding and ensure that everyone pays their fair share of taxes.

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Mr. Speaker, money laundering in Canada is a big problem, and it is a very big problem because it has a worth. That worth, as we heard in committee, is $113 billion a year. It is a staggering number.

The UN estimated that Canada's has up to 5% of the world's money laundering. Canada has become known, unfortunately, across the world as a place to park dirty money. There is even a name for Canada's ability to hide money. It is called snow washing. I think there are advertisements in some circles. It is theft, plain and simple.

While Bill C-42 aims to combat this $113-billion problem, it falls short of combatting the future of money laundering and relies on the provinces to do most of the work. The bill may do some of the work for today, and certainly in this House we can support a lot of that, but there is a lot of work to do as we move forward.

I sit on the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology, and we dealt with this very rushed bill. It came through very suddenly. We were talking about how it is tackling things not only today but tomorrow. As we went to the witnesses, we heard how it fails to address the problems of tomorrow and money laundering.

Money laundering became very popular after the 2016 release of the Panama papers. The Panama papers revealed trillions of dollars of money laundering, and there were certain lessons we were meant to learn from that. One was that there was a widespread scope. The Panama papers showed a vast scale of global money laundering and tax evasion. They exposed offshore financial activities of individuals and entities from around the world, including politicians, but we will not talk about that today.

The Panama papers exposed the use of shell corporations. They exposed the widespread use of shell companies and offshore entities to conceal the true ownership of assets and facilitate money laundering. It was of a cross-border nature. When we looked at how money was being laundered, it was being done across state lines and country lines across the world. The papers also brought attention to the role of professionals, such as lawyers, accountants and financial intermediaries, in facilitating money laundering. In other words, it was widespread.

When we talked about this with regard to Bill C-42, there were a couple of lessons the bill probably has taken into account that we can learn from. One is the need for transparency. Another is public awareness and the fact there are shell corporations using their own entities to launder dirty money.

We looked at the benefits we wanted to see from this bill in bringing it from committee to Parliament. The Conservative Party stands behind the fact that we need to combat money laundering. When it comes to certain aspects of the future of how money is going to be laundered, including blockchain technologies, the use of AI, decentralized exchanges, privacy enhancing technologies, and smurfing and layering, this bill falls short in addressing those things.

Furthermore, many people do not understand that when we look at the way we are going to collect data from these businesses when tackling money laundering, which is through the Canada Business Corporations Act, or the CBCA, it is only on 15% of businesses in Canada, meaning that we will rely on the provinces to do the work for the remaining 85%. If any last holdout province, for instance, does not want to join the registry and all of a sudden we see a certain province's limited partnerships start to skyrocket as other provinces' go down, there is pressure to be put on that particular province: Why do they want to be Canada's last secrecy jurisdiction?

This follows what we saw with the U.K. registry, where Scottish limited partnerships dropped by 80%. One way to mine the data once the registry comes online is to look for movement shifts, because of course crooks are going to go where the weakest link is. That is why it has to be a harmonized approach, not just a federal approach.

The CBCA governs the incorporation and operation of businesses at the federal level, setting the framework for corporate governance, accountability and transparency. By enforcing strict obligations on corporations, directors and officers to maintain accurate records and disclose information, the CBCA enhances transparency and hinders criminals from exploiting corporate structures for illegal purposes. Additionally, the CBCA empowers regulatory bodies, law enforcement agencies and courts to investigate suspected money laundering activities within corporations.

We heard from the RCMP at committee. One of the concerns we had was about how strict the rules are that protect whistle-blowers. We need whistle-blowers to identify where illegal activity is happening. As a small business owner myself, I have about four corporations that govern different parts of my business. Members can understand that without the ability to protect whistle-blowers, it is really easy sometimes for a small business owner to hide money and find different loopholes to hide it. I normally rely on an accountant to do that for me, but there is a reason that Canada has been able to hide $113 billion a year: It has become very easy.

One of the main aspects of this is that we have to be able to protect whistle-blowers. We asked questions of the RCMP on whether that is going to happen. This bill was so rushed that it went through committee in only two meetings, which included clause-by-clause and having testimony alongside the clause-by-clause. Some of the experts could not even get back to us, including the RCMP, on how effective this bill would be in protecting whistle-blowers, and that is a big concern.

When it comes to the future of money laundering, there was also testimony on the fly during clause-by-clause, with questions that I tried to get witnesses to answer, but the witnesses did not really have the right answers. For cryptocurrencies and blockchain, for instance, criminals may increasingly turn to cryptocurrencies for money laundering purposes. The anonymous nature of certain cryptocurrencies and the decentralized nature of blockchain technology can make it more challenging to trace and monitor transactions.

We saw that in a study we finished on blockchain technology. Blockchain is really good for Canada and good for the future. We employ 16,000 employees in blockchain, and it is worth over $2 billion. However, as we have seen blockchain for good, there is also blockchain for bad. This is certainly one aspect in the future where criminals will try to hide and launder money, and this bill would do nothing to address that.

When we talk about decentralized exchanges, criminals might explore those exchanges to launder money. DEXs, as they are called, operate on blockchain technology and facilitate peer-to-peer transactions without centralized oversight, making it more difficult for authorities to track and identify suspicious activities. We just had an incredible blockchain study, but at the same time as this bill would not address the criminal element of blockchain technology, we are not looking at the good. That is something the government is not embracing. Most times, it would rather slag cryptocurrencies and blockchain as a whole, even though we should be looking at deregulation and ensure they are part of money laundering bills.

On privacy-enhancing technologies, criminals may utilize emerging privacy-enhancing technologies that aim to provide increased anonymity and obfuscation of transactions. Those technologies could make it harder for authorities to trace the origins and destinations of funds involved in money laundering. Smurfing and layering involves breaking down large amounts of money into smaller, less conspicuous transactions.

That brings me to an amendment we brought forward that was turned down by the government. Instead of looking at ownership that was only 25% or higher, it should go as low as 10%. The technologies of the future are going to allow companies to hide more money easily, and 10% is something that we found should have been easily amended in this bill and was not.

It is important to address the potential regulatory gaps and weaknesses and make sure that this bill addresses the system that criminals may wish to exploit. As regulations evolve, criminals may identify new vulnerabilities or target regions with less robust anti-money laundering frameworks. Strengthening international co-operation and collaboration among governments and financial institutions is crucial to countering the global nature of money laundering effectively.

The Conservatives can support this bill. This bill would address the $113-billion problem. We just wish it was not so rushed. We wish that we had been able to address some of the amendments that went further. What the bill would not address is the future of money laundering, which will include blockchain and advanced technologies. This bill would just address today and would not address tomorrow.

I know that a Conservative government, which will be in power in the next few years, will be able to address that. I look forward to contributing to it to make sure that we bring down the $113-billion theft of Canadian money and work toward a better future where we have less snow washing in Canada.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the other day I drove through the hon. member's riding for the very first time in almost a decade. I remembered how wonderful the beaches are where he lives. They are quite amazing on the lakes.

The member raises an important question about how much further this bill could have gone had we had enough time at committee and not been rushed with hearing from witnesses and automatically going into clause-by-clause. If the government wants collaboration and wants to work with all political parties effectively, what could it have done differently to stop some of the nonsense due to its parliamentary practices?

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to talk about the beaches of Bay of Quinte. Sandbanks is the largest freshwater sandbar in all the world. We welcome well over a million visitors a year, and everyone is welcome. Some of us wish we were there today.

The bill deserves the attention that we are trying to give it, as rushed as it is. We need to spend time on a lot of different bills right now. We are dealing with Bill C-34 and are waiting for Bill C-27. The reality is that there is a lot of important legislation that we need to get through, and we need to spend the ample amount of time that these bills deserve to have spent on them. As I have mentioned, we certainly would have liked to see a few more amendments studied. We wanted to see the future of money laundering studied and not just to catch up to today.

There is a lot of great work to happen ahead, and as soon as we are done with the beaches and it gets a little colder, we will see everyone back here in Parliament so we can keep working on behalf of Canadians.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as I listened to my colleague's remarks, I was reminded of the debates we had at the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

My colleague asked some very good questions. We have heard that the amount of money laundered in Canada could be as high as $113 billion a year, which is a staggering number. According to a United Nations statistic, the amount of money laundered worldwide represents between 2% and 5% of global GDP.

Coming back to my colleague's speech, I would also like to remind him of a question he asked Ms. Ryan from the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada. This centre works primarily to combat money laundering.

How can we ensure that cryptocurrency cannot be used to circumvent the system? That was the gist of his question, and he also asked whether the current bill could guarantee the appropriate protection or whether a new bill should be introduced.

Basically, we understand that under this bill, the authorities will be using more and more mechanisms to address the issue of virtual money and the fight against money laundering. However, this is a brand new phenomenon, of course, and there are gaps in the current context.

I wonder if my colleague could elaborate on that. What does he think should be done in a future bill?

[Ryan Williams, Conservative, Bay of Quinte, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of great work my hon. colleague and I do, and I have a lot of respect for him. He does a lot of great work at the INDU committee, and I am happy to work with him.

There is a $113-billion question for money laundering, and my colleague and I are on the same page when it comes to blockchain technologies. As I mentioned in my speech, we finished that report.

When it comes to blockchain, it is tremendous for Canada, because it is about a $2-billion industry, with 16,000 jobs. With the companies and the work being done here in Canada, Canada right now, in the meantime, is considered a world leader. From there, we need bills that tackle the regulation of those industries so we can become and continue to be a leader. We also need to tackle money laundering problems that exist with cryptocurrencies and blockchain itself.

The member is right that we need a separate bill that takes up the work we completed over eight or nine meetings at the industry committee on blockchain to ensure that cryptocurrencies and blockchain are used for good in Canada. Canada can be a world leader in this. We can take the examples that have been brought to committee and make sure that Canada benefits the most from them. I know that my colleague and I would be happy to work further on that together at the INDU committee as we continue it.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Madam Speaker, with regard to Bill C‑42, if we were to talk to our constituents today about money laundering and ask them what it is, how it works and how to stop it, I am sure they would have fairly clear and strong opinions about it.

However, some would think that we are still living in the time of Al Capone and that money laundering is actually done through laundries. Times have changed, but I will come back to that. Everyone would agree that money laundering is unfair and unethical. It is unfair to honest workers, to those who start and run honest businesses and pay their taxes.

It is unfair to all those who see that their health care system is struggling for various reasons, but I will not get into that. It is unfair to all those who are wondering how many billions of dollars a year are not going into the government coffers in Canada because of money laundering and whether those billions of dollars could be used to improve the health care systems in Quebec and the other provinces. These people are right to wonder about those things. They are right in thinking that it is unfair for some people to fly below the radar and launder the proceeds of crime or even just money that was not declared. Everyone would also agree that the governments need to do more, be stricter and put in place laws to better control money laundering.

Bill C‑42 is a step in the right direction. This bill amends the Canada Business Corporations Act while respecting what is already in place in Quebec and the Canadian provinces, while respecting the agreements already reached between Quebec and the Canadian provinces, which is certainly a good thing.

Bill C‑42 also amends the Access to Information Act, the Income Tax Act, the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act, and the Budget Implementation Act, 2022, No. 1. A number of laws are being amended, but there is one that is not, specifically the Criminal Code. Perhaps we need to think about that, and I will come back to that.

As I was saying, when we talk about organized crime, people often think of Al Capone, outlaw biker gangs, street gangs and the various mafias that exist today. However, we forget that criminals can be found outside of the groups I just named. There are also white collar criminals who often fly under the radar. However, their sources of income are not necessarily any more legitimate.

As I said, some people may still think that laundering money requires a laundromat. The many ways of laundering money have been modernized, and it is important for our laws to be modernized as well. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since the days of Al Capone, but money laundering is as lucrative as ever. It may be more insidious, but it is no less lucrative for criminals. It is a different story for our society, however.

In the U.S. alone, an estimated $300 billion per year is generated by illegal activities. This amounts to about $1,000 per U.S. resident. In Canada, the same $1,000 would add up to $40 billion in illegal activities unaccounted for in Canada and absent from the treasury. This $40 billion is only $14 billion more than Quebec and the Canadian provinces are requesting in health transfers.

That is a huge amount of money. Let us imagine what we could do by regulating this.

Transparency and the obligation of transparency are excellent means of countering organized crime. This is what Bill C‑42 proposes. If forced to name themselves or be included in a registry, people and businesses that want to launder money will perhaps think twice before trying to do it themselves or hiring investors whose purpose is to launder money. No self-respecting company wants to see its name and reputation dragged through the mud. It takes a long time to build up a reputation, but not long for it to be torn down.

However, the current law only mentions directors. Only directors can be named. Even if all the saints in heaven are sitting at the boardroom table, a company will not be cleaner or more legal if the investors and owners are demons from hell. The ideas will not be any better and the money will not be any less criminal. Naming the owners explicitly in the registry will remove the temptation for criminals to invest in businesses.

What is happening right now? We often learn about scandals from whistle-blowers. Unfortunately, they may be taken to court, have their lives threatened or, in some cases, even be imprisoned. We need to ensure that these whistle-blowers are protected because they are valuable to society.

Today's crime requires the collaboration of professionals who are very familiar with the flaws in the system. Those flaws allow them to help criminals to launder money. One of the flaws in Bill C‑42 is that it does not cover the people who knowingly help criminals launder their money or those who are forced to do so. That is an improvement we need to think about making in a future bill.

Right now, I also see that, if a company commits an offence, then it has to pay a fine of $100,000. If they refuse or fail to add certain names to the registry, then they may be fined a maximum of $100,000. For some companies $100,00 may be a lot, while for others it may be very little. It seems like a rather arbitrary amount to me. I think that perhaps we should look at other ways of calculating the fine. Perhaps, instead, the fine should be based on profits declared. We should look into that. However, as I have already said, this is still a good start.

This bill, while not perfect, is an excellent step towards greater transparency and greater honesty, and it will allow Canada to be a role model rather than a dunce. I also want to say again that this is an excellent example of co-operation rather than intrusion into the jurisdictions of Quebec and the Canadian provinces, which is quite exceptional these days. However, it is a good idea.

The Bloc Québécois will vote in favour of this bill, despite some minor flaws that can be corrected over time.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the speech that the member from the Bloc made. However, I would like the record to show how interesting this is in the light of the negotiations that go on to create orders and speaking lists and whatnot. That was meant to be an NDP speech, in the midst of what I thought was the confidence and supply agreement the NDP has with the Liberals. I did not think the NDP members were big fans of bringing in what is known as “scab labour”.

I am concerned that there are certainly some parties in this place that do not seem to be taking this seriously. The Bloc Québécois members obviously want to take those spots, as do Conservatives. They want to take spots to speak about the fact that Canada has become a haven for money laundering. I think it is important that the record does show that the NDP members are not taking advantage of the spots that were allotted to them.

Specifically, my question to the member from the Bloc Québécois is this. Canada has become known around the world as a haven for money laundering. I understand that in money laundering circles, it has been coined as “snow washing”, and it represents more than $100 billion a year in economic activity. I am wondering if the member believes that this bill goes far enough. Is there more that needs to be done beyond what is contained in Bill C-42?

I know that some things were discussed in committee, but certainly there are a whole host more in addition to those. Is there more action that needs to be taken to combat money laundering in our nation?