House of Commons Hansard #60 of the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was industry.

Topics

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International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women Members debate the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women, marking the start of 16 days of activism against gender-based violence. They highlight the ongoing femicide crisis, particularly affecting Indigenous women and 2SLGBTQI+ individuals. While the Liberal government outlines funding and legislative measures, Conservatives and Bloc Québécois criticize budget cuts and the Prime Minister's abandonment of feminist foreign policy. New Democrats also call for greater action on MMIWG2S+ recommendations. 4400 words, 35 minutes.

Budget 2025 Implementation Act, No. 1 Second reading of Bill C-15. The bill implements Budget 2025, addressing economic impact through investments in housing, infrastructure, and social programs like the national school food program. Opposition parties criticize the bill's omnibus nature and the government's fiscal approach, arguing it drives up debt and creates a "productivity crisis." Debate also covers the repeal of the luxury tax and concerns about Veterans Affairs funding. 52200 words, 6 hours in 2 segments: 1 2.

Statements by Members

Question Period

The Conservatives criticize the Prime Minister's conflicts of interest with Brookfield, accusing him of benefiting from its deals. They highlight his failure to reduce US tariffs on Canadian goods, citing his "who cares?" attitude. The party also attacks the government's inaction on pipelines and soaring living costs, particularly food inflation and fuel taxes.
The Liberals highlight their success in securing trade deals and attracting $70 billion in foreign investment to create jobs and grow the economy. They defend Budget 2025 and investments in major infrastructure, supporting vulnerable sectors and criticizing the opposition for voting against Canadian progress.
The Bloc accuses the Liberals of rigging the 1995 referendum by fast-tracking citizenship and manipulating the immigration system. They also criticize the government for abandoning the fight against climate change by approving two pipelines for dirty oil.
The NDP focuses on upholding disability rights and protecting public health care from privatization.

Criminal Code Second reading of Bill C-220. The bill proposes to amend the Criminal Code to prohibit judges from considering a non-citizen's immigration status when sentencing, aiming to ensure that non-citizens convicted of serious crimes face deportation consequences. Conservatives argue this will prevent a two-tiered justice system and uphold the value of Canadian citizenship. Liberals and the Bloc Québécois express concerns about judicial independence, proportionality, and the impact on individuals' lives, suggesting the bill is ill-conceived and not evidence-based. 8600 words, 1 hour.

Softwood Lumber Industry Members debate the ongoing softwood lumber dispute with the U.S., where tariffs have tripled to 45%, leading to mill closures and job losses. The government details financial supports, legal challenges, and domestic demand initiatives. Opposition criticizes "10 years of failure," demanding immediate action, a negotiated deal, and exploring options like buying back duties or a national working table to protect communities. 35400 words, 4 hours.

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Softwood Lumber IndustryGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Columbia—Kootenay—Southern Rockies, BC

Madam Chair, that is a really good question, but the answer certainly is twofold. It is Trump with the tariffs, but it is also 10 years of no action. We cannot go 10 years without dealing with the problem and expect everything to go smoothly. The lumber industry has been crying for the last 10 years. It wants a deal. It wants a softwood lumber deal. There is $10 billion in a bank account that it cannot get access to. Now we are closing mills across Canada that are likely not going to come back, so that increases production in the United States and means less for us.

How do we build our homes without sawmills? Let us think about that for a second. Where is our strategy to build these homes if we do not have any sawmills?

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8:40 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Madam Chair, I rise today with a heavy heart for 25 families in Petit-Saguenay, a community of 600 people in my riding whose sawmill closed its doors. Twenty-five fathers and mothers are going home not knowing how they will pay for groceries and rent at the end of the month.

I am also thinking of all the other sawmills, workers and communities that have gone through this same nightmare since the agreement expired in 2015. It has been exactly 10 years since we last had a softwood lumber agreement. For 10 years, this Liberal government has allowed our workers to be crushed by American tariffs, which were just increased to 45%.

Since this Prime Minister took office, tariffs have tripled despite the fact that, during the last election campaign, he got elected by saying that he was the man who would meet the moment and the right person to negotiate with President Trump. He even said that the tariffs would be gone by July 1. Today is November 25.

In 2006, Stephen Harper managed to get the softwood lumber agreement done in just 80 days. When Trudeau arrived in 2015, he said there would be an agreement within the first 100 days. What happened? It is the same old story. Nothing happened. To make matters worse, tariffs are exploding and mills are closing.

Since 2015, mills have closed in Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, British Columbia and across Canada. That has meant the loss of 25,000 direct jobs and 90,000 indirect jobs. Villages that rely solely on the lumber industry are threatened with having to shut down. As a result, businesses are closing their doors, young people are leaving and those communities will never see them again.

Over 200,000 Canadian families depend on this industry. Forestry work is inextricably linked to the future of regions like Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean and many others. Our political leaders need to realize that. Our leaders need to get their heads out of their Excel spreadsheets and remember that there are real human beings behind the numbers, workers who care deeply about the forestry industry and have it in their blood. It is often passed down from father to son, from generation to generation, and for many, it is a family affair.

The situation today is no different than it was 10 years ago. The problem is that we have a government that lacks the will to reach an agreement. We know that negotiating with the Americans has never been easy. They are always protectionist, as sector experts would say. That is why the industry is pleading with Ottawa to take urgent action, not to drag its feet.

Our loggers, truckers and factory workers are not looking for handouts. They do not want photo ops. They do not want lip service and, above all, they do not want phony programs. They want an agreement that allows them to sell their lumber at a fair price and keep their dignity.

I will put the question directly to the Prime Minister. When will he follow Stephen Harper's example and do what he did in 80 days? When will he stop making promises and start living up to expectations? Is he going to keep standing by as he watches our regions perish while the Americans line their pockets?

If the Liberal government has failed to reach an agreement after 10 years, three different presidents and billions of wasted dollars, it should make room for a Conservative government that will actually fight for Canada and for our workers. Our forestry workers—

Softwood Lumber IndustryGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Kmiec

The hon. member's time has expired.

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources.

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8:45 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard—Verdun Québec

Liberal

Claude Guay LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources

Mr. Chair, no matter how my colleague presents it, I believe that everyone in this House agrees that this is a terrible situation and that the impact it is having on the industry, families and workers is unfortunate.

I would like to remind him of something. Perhaps the interpretation was not working earlier, but today the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources announced that additional assistance for the industry would be coming this week. We are taking note of feedback from the industry. We are in constant discussion with the industry to stay on top of the situation.

I hear my colleagues talking about negotiations, about the fact that an agreement is needed and that it should be done—

Softwood Lumber IndustryGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Kmiec

I must interrupt the member to give the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord a chance to respond.

Softwood Lumber IndustryGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Mr. Chair, what I find difficult about all this is that, in the 10 years this government has been in power, no agreement has been negotiated and three American presidents have come and gone. On top of that, Mr. Trudeau was apparently on very good terms with Mr. Obama. There is absolutely no will to address this issue, and that is what the forestry industry is criticizing. Does the government really want an agreement?

The industry needs stability and predictability. That is important for the sector. We need to eliminate the uncertainty. We need an agreement, and it seems as though there is no will to reach one.

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8:50 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC

Mr. Chair, I hope the people listening tonight, especially the government, can understand that where there is a will, there is a way.

When it is time for Ottawa to help the oil industry, the cheque is signed mere days or even hours later. When it is time to help the auto industry, then presto, Ontario is up and running.

However, when it is time to help Quebec's forestry industry, what is the rush? They take their time. We have had countervailing duties for 10 years now. Tariffs are at 45%, and yet the government is patting itself on the back. Businesses are closing their doors. People are losing their jobs. Now they are telling us that they plan to announce something else on Thursday, so we had better stay tuned. This is ridiculous. The Prime Minister has been travelling all over the world, but he cannot even come help his own businesses here at home.

When it is time to help Ontario and Alberta yet again, he is there for them, but when it is time to help Quebec, where is this Liberal government?

Softwood Lumber IndustryGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Mr. Chair, we can talk about the assistance measures the government is offering. First of all, they are never for the regions and they are never for our small businesses. Who gets hit the hardest in all this? It is the supply chain. It is the people who cut the wood, bring it to the sawmill, and go into debt to pay for machinery. Today, they are getting hit very hard.

The government's assistance measures are wrapped in endless red tape. It seems like the government is doing everything it can to prevent people from accessing this assistance.

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8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Anderson Conservative Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC

Mr. Chair, we keep hearing about Donald Trump. Donald Trump has been in power for five years; the Liberal government has been in power for 10 years. Somehow, five years just slipped through the cracks, but I think my colleague already addressed that.

When we heard earlier from the Liberals, I could barely believe it when it came out that the food price problem was a matter of climate change. I am wondering if the member thinks climate change is causing the softwood problem.

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8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Mr. Chair, the issue I have with this government is that, during the election campaign, the current Prime Minister told everyone that he was the right man for the job of negotiating. I remember that very well. He was proud to say so. People believed him and now they are disappointed. They are still waiting. Absolutely nothing has been accomplished since he came to power. People's disappointment is palpable.

Again, I think there is no leadership on the government side.

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8:50 p.m.

Calgary Confederation Alberta

Liberal

Corey Hogan LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources

Mr. Chair, our government is there and will continue to be there to help the Canadian softwood lumber industry. The forestry sector is core to our economy and our Canadian identity.

My own family's story has been interwoven with Canadian forestry for centuries. My father David Hogan grew up in mill towns and worked summers at the newsprint mill. My grandfather John Hogan was a career pulp worker who worked at mills in Baie-Comeau, Masson-Angers, Chandler and Port Hawkesbury. His father spent his career in forestry. While it was not an unbroken line, as it was sometimes uncles, brothers or cousins, that is the way it was for generations in my family, back to when Antoine Bouchard married Marie-Madeleine Simard in Saguenay in the early 1700s.

It is true, the member for Jonquière and I are eighth cousins.

My family owes an enormous debt to the good jobs that the forestry sector provided then, provides now, and will provide well into the future. In fact, this entire country owes that debt. To make good on it, we must secure and protect this industry, and ensure for it and those who work within it a growing and prosperous future.

This is a moral obligation, but it also makes sound economic and environmental sense. The sector is increasingly recognized as a key aspect of greener construction and a more sustainable lifestyle. Lumber is a renewable resource, a carbon sink and a competitive advantage.

Canada has more forests than almost any other country in the world, and the quality of the wood we produce is exceptional thanks to the natural advantages of our climate and our forestry industry's role as a global leader in forest stewardship. High quality creates high demand, especially from the United States.

However, the industry is going through a period of crisis. Our long-standing softwood lumber trade dispute with the Americans has reached a point where combined tariffs and duties now average 45%. The United States is not just our number one export market. At 85%, it basically is the market.

The market is one we built and earned based on the quality and accessibility of our products. Now, however, we are being shut out of that market because of protectionist policies. The situation is bad for American consumers and American builders and bad for the Canadian forestry sector. It is bad for forestry towns and bad for forestry workers and their families.

The American action only harms; it does not help. It harms the Americans, of course. They do not have the lumber production to meet their domestic demand. They do not have the foresters, the mill workers or the supply chains. There is no reasonable time frame in which the United States will become self-sufficient in lumber. Instead, it will pay more to buy from us, the Europeans or the South Americans, and it will get less: lower-quality timber and smaller lumber.

Of course, the American action also badly harms Canada. We do not have another market of the U.S.'s size or as close. As good as our product is and as talented as our forestry workers are, diversifying away from a market that was built up over centuries will take time.

Both we and the Americans need a softwood lumber deal. We realize this, and they will. We will work at every level to get this deal. In the meantime, we must support our forestry communities: the companies, the workers, the families and the businesses that rely on the mills being open.

Many mills are closing or curtailing. As good as the Canadian product is and as much as American demand remains, having 45% combined tariffs and duties is very difficult.

As I said, combatting this decline is not only a moral imperative; it is an economic one. When workers and their families leave these communities, they do not always come back. Expertise is lost that takes decades to rebuild. Forest roads that support mining exploration are not built. Unharvested timber rots in tenures, and that can create fire risk. Rural hubs lose the vital services that are no longer able to be sustained.

We have discussed these measures to support the forestry sector several times in the House. I will briefly review them. First, there is $50 million for workers. However, even though this is necessary and important, forestry workers do not want employment insurance benefits. They want to work. They want a future for their industry.

That is why we are also providing $700 million in liquidity supports, $500 million to increase local processing and value-added production, as well as strict rules under the buy Canadian policy that require the use of Canadian lumber in general and for the Build Canada Homes program in particular. We are strengthening our domestic and export markets.

These investments and policies are in addition to a $5-billion strategic fund that will help companies affected by tariffs pivot, adapt and innovate.

We have also expanded eligibility for the existing investment tax credits to include systems that generate electricity, heat or both from waste biomass through budget 2025. This helps sawmills struggling with tariffs and duties by incentivizing new clean energy uses for residuals.

I want to thank the member for Courtenay—Alberni for his advocacy on this file. It supports meaningful investment in our forestry sector.

There is more to do, and this government will do more. It is my sincere hope that we will use tonight's take-note debate to elevate a conversation and to talk about other ways to support the softwood lumber industry in Canada in the short term, as we look to get a deal and as we look to reorient in the long term.

Therefore, I ask, what other supports could be considered for workers in mill communities to keep workers employed if possible and financially supported when necessary, and to keep communities vibrant? What other supports could be considered for companies in the sector to keep balance sheets strong, to keep mills open and to support diversification?

On that note, I would like to talk about our future, the future of Canada's forestry sector. It would be naive to believe that a softwood lumber agreement will solve all our problems once and for all. We have had softwood lumber agreements before. If we do not want to be at the mercy of some future junior senator from Oregon, we must diversify our forestry sector. We must diversify our markets and we must diversify our products.

I want to be clear: We cannot replace U.S. demand in any reasonable time frame. It is our largest market, and the U.S. already builds houses out of wood. Our mills are tooled to their products and our continent and existing infrastructure make north-south transportation easy and cheap, but the U.S. market needs us too. We used to provide 32% of its softwood lumber, and after all the hostile policy we still provide 25% of its softwood lumber, but the share of its domestic production that has increased over time is negligible. The share is made up by new imports. The U.S. simply does not have the wood.

In this lose-lose scenario, our hundreds of forestry communities are feeling it more. If we want to increase our leverage, we need to shift exports away from the United States. We do not need to shift all or even most; even a few percentage points of diversification increases our leverage relative to that of the U.S. and makes sustaining a deal, a good deal that benefits both sides, more likely in the future.

As I close, I want to say that a healthy forestry sector requires four things. First is access to economic inputs, timber or residuals, depending on the part of the business. Second is access to the capital required to be competitive in this sophisticated and mechanized business. Third is access to markets, product lines and geographies, much of which require the right infrastructure. Fourth is the talent, and we have centuries of talent spread across hundreds of forest communities. Canada, working with all jurisdictions and indigenous peoples, needs to consciously build and maintain our capacity in all four.

The Canadian forestry industry will ultimately succeed because of our strong foundations. We have high-quality wood, we have trade relationships around the world and we have the talent. With the support of this government and the House, we can succeed faster. We can get through this period and lay the groundwork for a forestry sector that can thrive for countless generations.

Let us get all ideas on the table, maybe beyond “we should just try harder”, and work collaboratively to support an industry that means so much to so many of us and is so integral to the story of Canada.

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9 p.m.

Conservative

Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Chair, the member opposite admits we need the U.S. market and claims the U.S. market needs us, but the European Union negotiated a 10% flat rate with the United States while we sit at 45%, and purchases are rapidly shifting. The Prime Minister, in the meantime, says that he is in no hurry to make a deal because this is not a burning issue.

What is the member opposite going to do when demand has shifted and we are still sitting at a 45% tariff with no jobs?

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9 p.m.

Liberal

Corey Hogan Liberal Calgary Confederation, AB

Mr. Chair, reality is obviously much more complicated. Europe has a 10% tariff, but it is quite far away and does not have the natural advantage of geography that we do. It also does not have the quality of wood we do. One of the benefits of Canadian lumber production is that it is built in an environment that is colder, so the wood becomes more dense. It also allows, because we do it in a more natural sense, more competition among trees, which again increases the density, as opposed to the plantation models that the Europeans enjoy.

Therefore, we have a natural competitive advantage. That demand will still be there when we get ourselves a market, and we are going to work very hard in the meantime to support our forestry sector and make sure it is still there when that market comes back.

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9 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Mr. Chair, I congratulate my colleague, the parliamentary secretary, on his speech. It is a pleasure to work with him. I know that he is a sensible, non-partisan guy. I also know that, at committee, he heard about the solution I mentioned earlier, which was proposed by Chantiers Chibougamau, Remabec, Domtar and union representatives.

I would like to get a clear answer from my colleague this evening. He is the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources. Does the Liberal government think that this proposal can be studied, or will it be dismissed? I would like a clear answer. I think that the people in the forestry sector expect one.

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9:05 p.m.

Liberal

Corey Hogan Liberal Calgary Confederation, AB

Mr. Chair, yes, it is possible.

Softwood lumber exporters are clearly facing significant debt and need financial assistance in the form of cash flow. However, there are risks associated with such a program, as we have heard. That said, we are open to considering all options that could help boost cash flow and strengthen the sector's financial situation.

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9:05 p.m.

Liberal

Tim Watchorn Liberal Les Pays-d'en-Haut, QC

Mr. Chair, I am very pleased to say that the Groupe Crête lumber mill is in my riding, in Chertsey. When we met with the representatives of Groupe Crête, they explained that they were having a lot of problems with forest access. The Quebec forestry regime was introduced some years ago. It was denounced by the industry as unworkable, and then abandoned.

I would like to hear what my hon. colleague has to say about that.

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9:05 p.m.

Liberal

Corey Hogan Liberal Calgary Confederation, AB

Mr. Chair, my colleague's question touches on a couple of important points worth highlighting. First, any support of the forestry sector is going to require collaboration with the provinces, because it is simply not going to work otherwise. When we look at tenure in particular and at economic access to fibre, that really is in the provincial hands primarily. There are things the federal government can do to incent, but there are challenges.

However, the federal government has the ability to assist with the access to new markets and new products. In particular, we have funds at NRCan, such as one called IFIT, which helps retool and allow the creation of new products that, in many cases, can avoid tariffs because they are value-add.

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9:05 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Chair, first I want to thank the parliamentary secretary for talking about working together for the establishment of a biomass tax credit, which will support the paper mills in Port Alberni and Crofton on Vancouver Island. However, we need more of that collaboration.

Steel, aluminum and energy all have working tables to mandate fast-tracking solutions when it comes to duties. What we need is for the federal government to create a federal industry national softwood working table with a mandate to fast-track solutions on duties, liquidity and Canada's negotiating posture so we finally secure a fair and durable softwood lumber agreement.

Will the parliamentary secretary commit to doing that today and work in that collaborative spirit?

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9:05 p.m.

Liberal

Corey Hogan Liberal Calgary Confederation, AB

Mr. Chair, it is an excellent idea, and while it is not my place alone to be able to make that decision, I am certainly supportive of it and will work with the department.

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9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Tamara Kronis Conservative Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Chair, in response to my last question, the hon. member explained some of the reasons he thinks Canadian lumber is special, which give us some time to make a deal, but I have spoken to the forestry companies and workers in my communities, and I can tell members that they say we do not have time to wait.

The government has announced some limited relief, yet it seems to be in no hurry to move on. What people in my community want to know is what the government is going to do when the limited relief runs out and what the families who have lost their livelihoods are going to do when their savings run out.

Softwood Lumber IndustryGovernment Orders

November 25th, 2025 / 9:05 p.m.

Liberal

Corey Hogan Liberal Calgary Confederation, AB

Mr. Chair, obviously the hearts of everybody here tonight in this take-note debate go out to anybody who is affected, and I really, truly hope that we as a chamber can come up with solutions to make their lives better, which is exactly what the purpose of this take-note debate is.

We will be announcing additional supports this week. I really encourage the opposition to reach out with their ideas. I appreciate the ideas that the opposition has provided to date, because we are in this together and this country is in this together. If we want to move forward strongly, we need to move forward together.

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9:05 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Chair, we saw during COVID that we can move quickly. The government announced $1.2 billion in relief, but that is not getting to the companies in real time. We are hearing that there is a huge disconnect when it comes to the banks and the liquidity that is needed right now.

Will the parliamentary secretary and will the government act in the same urgency as we did with COVID in getting relief out the door? Time matters right now. Every day that goes by, we see more and more mills close and more and more jobs lost.

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9:05 p.m.

Liberal

Corey Hogan Liberal Calgary Confederation, AB

Mr. Chair, I completely agree: We need to be seized with urgency on this. In fact, when forestry executives informed the minister on Thursday that they were having trouble accessing these funds, he reached out to the major banks, which are responsible for delivering this BDC product. The Minister of Energy and Natural Resources talked with the banks last night to make sure they were as seized with the urgency as we are.

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9:10 p.m.

Liberal

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Mr. Chair, in my riding of Madawaska—Restigouche, the forestry industry is a key driver of the economy. I have regular contact with people involved in the industry, including workers, business owners and intermediate players, such as forestry operators, who collect timber from the forest but without necessarily exporting products to the United States. These people are also affected by the tariffs.

I would like my colleague to explain why the various support measures in place now or coming in the future are also important to these forestry sector intermediaries.

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9:10 p.m.

Liberal

Corey Hogan Liberal Calgary Confederation, AB

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his question. Yes, all that is interconnected.

The forestry sector is an ecosystem. I think the hon. member for Jonquière described it as a chain. I completely agree, and it falls apart if any part gets weak. When we talk about supports for the forestry sector, one of the things I discussed in my remarks was that we need to talk about the communities around it as well. We need to make sure that the overall ecosystem is supported.

When we talk about a sawmill's economic viability, there is the dimensional lumber that comes out the other side, but there are also the residuals that need to find a market in pulp. On the flip side, if someone has a pulp mill and the sawmill goes down, they are not going to have economic access to residuals, so we need to talk about keeping entire clusters up, and we need to be supporting the industry as a whole, not as individual pieces.

I think that is an absolutely spot-on point.