House of Commons Hansard #162 of the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was illness.

Topics

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This summary is computer-generated. Usually it’s accurate, but every now and then it’ll contain inaccuracies or total fabrications.

Statements by Members

Question Period

The Conservatives focus on affordability, calling for gas-tax cuts and criticizing the government over food insecurity and rising food-bank use. They press for fiscal restraint ahead of the budget, question the government’s trade strategy, and demand transparency over corporate influence in the Major Projects Office and alleged insider benefits from Cohere funding and Telesat contracts. They also raise concerns about industrial competitiveness and support for injured soldiers.
The Liberals promote tomorrow’s budget as a plan to build a resilient economy, create jobs and improve affordability, while defending supports for families and children. They champion major infrastructure and energy projects, Canadian industries and sovereign technology, including satellites and AI, and emphasize trade diversification and support for workers facing tariffs. They also highlight housing construction and homebuyer measures.
The Bloc argues Ottawa is serving American interests at Quebec’s expense, citing concessions on culture and dairy and fossil-fuel spending over housing and affordability. It demands repayment of Quebec’s asylum-seeker costs and higher health transfers, and opposes Bill C-39 over its limits on strike rights and Indigenous rights.
The NDP criticize pipeline spending's climate and Indigenous impacts and demand community housing to build one million non-market homes.

Veterans' Week Members mark Veterans’ Week and Remembrance Day by honouring veterans, serving members and military families, including those affected by the recent deaths and injuries at CFB Wainwright. They reflect on the human costs of war and call for remembrance through ceremonies and storytelling, alongside better care and support for veterans. 2800 words, 25 minutes.

Canada Pension Plan Investment Board Act First reading of Bill C-295. The bill requires the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board to avoid investments in entities linked to serious human, labour or environmental rights violations, prohibited weapons, or certain forms of corruption. 300 words.

Petitions

Budget 2025 Implementation Act, No. 2 Report stage of Bill C-31. The bill implements budget measures, including major-project approvals, Canadian procurement, defence investment, trade diversification, business tax incentives and clean-economy support. Conservatives criticize its defence procurement powers and the government’s spending and debt, while Liberals argue it supports economic growth, workers and households. The Bloc raises concerns about pesticide re-evaluations and public-service immunity. 9200 words, 1 hour.

Wartime Service Recognition Act Second reading of Bill S-246. The bill requires a transparent national framework and objective criteria for recognizing wartime service, applied to past and future conflicts. Members across parties support updating recognition for veterans of conflicts such as the Persian Gulf War and Afghanistan, and the bill passes unanimously for committee study. 6000 words, 45 minutes.

Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards Act Second reading of Bill C-41. The bill would permanently exclude MAID where mental illness is the sole underlying condition and allow advance requests for people with capacity-limiting illnesses. Liberal and Bloc members emphasize autonomy and respecting prior wishes, while Conservatives question consent and safeguards and call for the measures to be separated for further study. Provinces and territories would decide whether to implement advance requests. 53500 words, 6 hours.

Adjournment Debates

Parental leave flexibility Garnett Genuis urges the government to adopt five Conservative proposals: pausable parental leave, learning while on leave, a caregiving-income exemption, CPP child-rearing credits for both parents, and continued benefits if a parent dies. Daniel Gobeil highlights child care, school food and EI measures but does not directly address the proposals; Genuis criticizes the response.
Agricultural research centre closures John Barlow condemns Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada’s planned research-centre closures, arguing that the sale of the Nappan beef herd destroys generations of region-specific research and worsens a scientific brain drain. Daniel Gobeil says the cuts reduce overhead while research continues elsewhere and through broader partnerships. Barlow argues the closures undermine essential regional research.
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Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:30 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Mr. Speaker, in his speech, my colleague said that he thought it was immoral for a person who is not terminally ill to have access to MAID. However, Bill C-14 was inconsistent with the Carter decision. Ms. Carter and Ms. Taylor were not terminally ill. They were approaching the terminal phase of their illness. Being terminally ill does not mean that death is imminent or that a person is not already experiencing intolerable and irremediable suffering.

The Supreme Court is of the opinion that creating a blanket exclusion for people who are not terminally ill but who are suffering infringes on the right to life because it forces them to cut their life short rather than allowing them to determine when their suffering has become intolerable. What people want is to live as long as possible, up to the limit of what they can tolerate. That is what MAID allows for in cases that are not related to a reasonably foreseeable natural death.

As a legislator, how can my colleague promote a bill that is unconstitutional?

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:35 p.m.

Conservative

Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member is talking about what is already the law. What we are discussing now is whether MAID should be available to people whose sole underlying condition is a mental illness, and there is broad agreement in this House that it should not be. However, the debate primarily focuses on end-of-life decisions for persons with Alzheimer's disease, for example, or other similar health problems.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:35 p.m.

Liberal

Natilien Joseph Liberal Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am not challenging my colleague's right to his personal convictions. I am challenging his possible intention to put his rights above the rights and autonomy of others. Can my colleague explain to the House the difference between therapeutic obstinacy and the right to die with dignity?

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:35 p.m.

Conservative

Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Mr. Speaker, what we are saying is that there needs to be a debate about this. This is not something we should be rushing through. We are talking about life and death.

The Liberals made a lot of mistakes. As a matter of fact, that is the reason they delayed it once, twice and I believe three times. Now they realize that they got it wrong. They got it wrong before, and they are going to get it wrong again.

This is serious. It is very complex. There are a lot of different pieces that we need to look at, not have rushed debates in the middle of the night that have to be done by a certain period. This is not good for Canada. No matter what the member may think, we need to make sure it works.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:35 p.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is late, but it is never too late to talk about what life is all about.

In fact, death is a fact of life. That is what we are discussing tonight. Let me begin with my conclusion. We have heard our colleagues repeatedly point out that Quebec was ahead of the curve, that it conducted multiparty consultations and that it even took the time to examine each step of the process. Today, we are saying that Quebec is not only ready, but that it also needs the latitude, insofar as the Criminal Code is concerned, to fully implement its legislation.

Here, we began studying medical assistance in dying five years ago, looking in particular at what took place in Quebec. That work yielded a wealth of findings that now allow us to clearly distinguish between two situations: advance requests and individuals who have been suffering from unbearable mental illnesses for decades.

What I am beginning to realize is that we are not going to make it happen. Some people want to divide the bill, others want to have two votes. Basically, I cannot even keep up. There is one thing I do understand, though. Can we take action together and agree that if certain provinces and territories are not ready, that is their business? If we in Quebec are ready, because we have been talking about it for years, then please let us implement what we believe is right for us. This would illustrate that such a sensitive bill was drafted through a collaborative process. I do not think we will achieve that here in the House. We have perfectly legitimate differences of opinion, but when it comes to end-of-life care, human dignity is being set aside when the individual should come first regarding decisions about their own life.

When someone is making a decision for themselves, I would feel very uncomfortable doing or saying anything that might influence that person. It is not up to me to tell them, no, they cannot die, or yes, they can die. It is up to the individual.

I am saying this because I have been through it myself. I am talking about it, but I am certainly not trying to oversimplify things and suggest that the law should be based on my experience. I want that to be clear. I have lived experience. In 2017, my father was diagnosed with ALS. People who were here more than a decade ago knew the MP Mauril Bélanger. ALS is a devastating disease. It causes tremendous suffering. It can reach a point where a person is no longer able to endure that suffering, which in this case is both physical and psychological because the person is trapped in their own body.

In 2017, my father participated in several research studies. At the time, even I, as his young daughter, would tell him that he could not possibly be thinking about death. He told me that death is just part of life. However, after discussing his case with researchers and scientists, he chose to die with his illness rather than from it. In the final stages of ALS, swallowing and breathing become increasingly difficult. The heart does not stop, but people generally end up suffocating. Because my father was eligible for MAID, he chose to die without having to endure that suffering. No one wants their parents to leave them, but he made me understand something.

It was only afterwards that I realized how understandable it is not to want to lose a loved one. It is out of love. What I am hearing in these discussions is, above all, a fear that the person might miss out on something, that there could still be moments of happiness. I could have a colleague tell me that a person with dementia has experienced 24 hours of complete lucidity over the course of three months. Ultimately, it is up to the person who is caring for their loved one. We are unable to come to an agreement about the role of loved ones this evening.

I am thinking back to when my father told me he was going to die from his illness. Of course, there was the possibility of intervention, but no one was ever able to intervene. I experienced it myself. How many times did we have to reaffirm the legitimacy of my father's right to refuse treatment, to ask that he not be allowed to suffer, and to have his end-of-life wishes respected?

He had been trapped in his body for 20 years. He told me one day that he had been using a ventilator, a BiPAP, for eight years, that he never took it off and wore it 24 hours a day, seven days a week. He could not take it anymore. The ventilator had replaced his lungs. I told him it was a natural reaction.

That is what this is all about. Let nature take its course and let us not try to save lives. If we are sick, let us die. That is what I hear, and it troubles me. In my father's case, he lived for eight years with a device that prolonged his life, but on the day he could no longer bear having that machine on his face all the time, we respected his wishes. It may have been that way from the start, eight years earlier, but he would have missed my wedding, he would not have seen my children grow up. Is it not selfish to want more time with our loved one?

Essentially, today we are debating and talking about other people. When we are talking about others, perhaps we should ask the person who is making the choice what they want, particularly in the case of advance requests. That is also what worries me. Some say that people can live a whole other life.

Earlier, I shared an analogy, or rather a story, about a colleague. I asked him what an advance request was. Simply put, sometimes we know somebody for 50, 60 or 90 years, and then they are diagnosed with Alzheimer's. This person gets to say what they will and will not endure. They may not want their personality to change completely. They may not want to have to be fed. They may not want to be confined to a chair because they tend to wander around the building. I suggested a scenario where a person who has been in politics his entire life undergoes a 180-degree personality change, causing him to strip off his clothes and flirt with everyone he encounters. If this person acted happy, people would see it in a positive light. They would think he had certain wishes that he expressed when he still had the capacity to choose. Now that he no longer has the capacity to say that this is not the end of life he wanted, however, his wishes are no longer valid. That is what I am having a hard time understanding.

As long as our discussions do not focus strictly on ethics and the protection of each individual's right to choose, simply saying that we are going to hold more meetings and conduct more analyses will only prolong the debate.

We will never see the end of it in the House.

What I want is for every individual to be able to make their own decisions about how their life ends.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:45 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George—Omineca, BC

Mr. Speaker, I have listened to this debate at length. I think my hon. colleague knows that my record stands in the House as one fighting against suicide. As I said in my speech and my comments, we are seeing a number of concerns already with the legislation as it stands. The medical community, those who have to deliver those lethal doses, those end-of-life medications, have concerns. We are asking on this side if, perhaps, this should be studied a little bit more, if we should hear from those professionals, because none of us in the House are doing that. There is nothing to prepare any of us to be able to vote on this. I do not think there has been enough study of this bill.

I think it is out of compassion that we are pushing back and fighting for those who are perhaps considering this.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:45 p.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Mr. Speaker, I did not have time to expand on prevention and the potential to save lives. Many of my colleagues have said that, when it comes to mental health in particular, we should start by putting all our efforts and energy into the service delivery networks. Yes, there are shortcomings.

Imagine a loved one saying that they are going through an unbearable situation and they are going to request MAID. That person is sending a cry for help in the face of suffering. I am very sensitive to the issue of suicide. It may sound crazy to say, but if the person makes that request, rather than committing an irreversible act, that is, killing themselves, they have a better chance of getting through the crisis. That person will be cared for, because they will obviously not be eligible for MAID, and they will not fall through the cracks.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:50 p.m.

Liberal

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Mr. Speaker, my colleague gave a great presentation on the importance of respecting the wishes of others. It should be perfectly clear that this is a choice, not an obligation. Every individual decides whether medical assistance in dying is right for them or not.

We have heard all sorts of things tonight. I would like my colleague to elaborate on what we have heard, especially the fact that MAID is still a choice and that strict guidelines are in place. It is not automatic. A person who requests MAID does not automatically get it.

I would like my colleague to tell us more about that, in light of what we have heard during this evening's debate.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:50 p.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to clear something up. If I am diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, I will not directly receive MAID. If I do not want it and never will, I will never receive it. I am under no obligation. If I decide today that I want MAID, but I change my mind tomorrow, my most recent decision takes precedence. What is there to be afraid of?

Does my colleague agree that this bill could be split? We could move ahead on advance requests, and the committee could take some time to explore the mental health component a little more.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:50 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is simple. We heard that there was a lack of data and that there was no basis for it. Can my colleague, a member from Quebec, give us more details about the data and the serious approach undertaken by the Select Committee on Dying with Dignity? A report was published on this issue in Quebec.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

11:50 p.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am so proud of that. Canada should take inspiration from the approach taken by the Quebec National Assembly. If that is too complicated, Canada should either let us be or let us leave, in which case we will take care of our own affairs.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 4th, 2026 / 11:50 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George—Omineca, BC

Mr. Speaker, it has been said before, and I said it in the original debate in 2016, that nothing in our lifetime prepares a member of Parliament to vote on such a consequential piece of legislation. There really is not. It truly is life or death. This legislation, as it stands today, raises serious questions about how Canada approaches medical assistance in dying, how we protect vulnerable people and what responsibilities the government has to Canadians who are suffering.

From the moment I landed as a member of Parliament, I have fought every day for those who serve our country and our community and for those who are struggling and suffering silently. For over 1,000 days, I pushed the previous government to launch a national suicide hotline, 988. I believe life is so precious that we should be doing everything to fight for every breath we have in us.

Since 2016, when I really struggled with that vote, I have contacted my pastor a number of times. It went against everything in my faith, in my fibre, everything that I had fought for in the 30 years leading up to my being elected as a member of Parliament. How could I vote with that? Since 2016, I have spoken with probably hundreds if not thousands of Canadians who had loved ones who suffered from cancer or ALS and chose MAID.

In December 2023, my mother, from whom I was estranged, was diagnosed with acute leukemia. It was going to attack her brain. It was a painful disease. She chose MAID, and she set a death date. Whatever background we had, I put it aside and sat by her bedside for probably about four months as we marched toward that death date. I was tasked with making her a mixtape, as a matter of fact, to play on that day.

Imagine my surprise and my brother's surprise, as we had mentally prepared for that day, regardless of what our background was with our mother, when we arrived to be told by the doctors that when they were preparing her, she said no. We were frustrated because we knew what was lying ahead for my mom, but that was her choice. We met with the doctors, the medical team, the MAID team, and they said they could not in good conscience administer the final dose of the medication to end her life. That is my story, so I understand where families are.

I am troubled by the number of Canadians, such as veterans, who are being offered MAID because they are struggling with PTSD or a mental illness. One in 10 Canadians knows someone who has been offered MAID. Approximately 13 Canadians die by suicide every day. Approximately 100,000 Canadians attempt suicide every year. That is 250 per day. About 20,0000 Canadians are hospitalized every year for self-harm. The MAID numbers are staggering. We are approaching 100,000 Canadians who have chosen to die by MAID. We are seeing commercials for end of life on TV and on social media.

I sat with a veteran who was offered MAID. He phoned Veterans Affairs and was offered MAID. Not once, not twice, but three times he was asked if he had considered MAID. I have sat with people who have gone to their doctor for injuries that were causing them unbelievable pain.

Our concern is with advance directives, and experts in the medical community have these same concerns. We are asking to split the bill to deal with mental illness and the advance directive separately to give us time to get this as close to right as possible, to put those further safeguards in place.

I come at this with the purest of intentions. There was a time when I was consumed with death. It was for about five years. My best friend had died by suicide, and I did not see a way forward. My childhood had been filled with dysfunction and abuse. I was struggling, and I attempted suicide numerous times. I have thought about this, and if MAID had been available at that time, I would have taken it.

Then I think about all the things I would have missed. Here I am so many years later, 38 years later, and I love life. I am so thankful I am here. I think of watching my four beautiful children grow up to be amazing adults; of my grandchildren, Ren and Meyer; and of finding the love of my life just at the end of that period of darkness.

As Conservatives, we believe that we have to do everything in our power to offer opportunities for getting better, getting the supports people need. We believe in hope. We are in a mental health crisis and an addiction crisis in this country, yet time and again we hear empty promises from the other side. Tomorrow is budget day, and I hope there will be supports in place for mental health. We now spend more money in servicing our debt than we do in health care transfers. The health care transfers that go to our provinces for mental health are pennies on the dollar. We do not view mental health in parity with physical health. If we did that, as a country, we would be healthier and happier, and we would see the numbers go further down.

This debate requires Parliament to think carefully about what kind of country we want to be. We must approach suffering people with compassion, respect and dignity, but compassion cannot simply mean offering another option at the end of someone's suffering. It must mean doing everything we reasonably can to help that person live, to provide treatment, to offer support and to ensure that they are not left alone.

On the question of MAID for mental illness, we are clear that we do not support it. I do not support it. We do not believe it should ever be permitted where mental illness is the sole underlying medical condition. Mental illness should be met with treatment, care and hope.

Canadians deserve a health care system that gives them a genuine opportunity to recover and a government that works to make care accessible. I truly understand that there are Canadians who are suffering with unbelievable illnesses for whom MAID is perhaps the right choice for them, but as parliamentarians, we must do everything in our power to make sure those safeguards are in place as we move this legislation forward.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, Midnight

Liberal

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Mr. Speaker, in a debate as sensitive as the one surrounding medical assistance in dying, I urge members to be thorough, to raise the standard of the debate and to ensure that we do not resort to oversimplifications that could hinder the public's understanding of the discussions taking place this evening.

At one point in my colleague's speech, he seemed to draw a parallel between suicide and medical assistance in dying, even though we know these are two fundamentally different things. Medical assistance in dying is an option available to people living with incurable illnesses that cause significant suffering.

There was also a point where my colleague spoke of commercial aspects related to medical assistance in dying. I must say I did not really understand that part. I believe we must be rigorous and ensure that we do not recount anecdotes or make false equivalencies that could hinder understanding of the debate.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, Midnight

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George—Omineca, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am not going to really dignify that with an answer. The member essentially said I have dumbed down this debate. I am going to keep my words parliamentary and not dignify that stupid statement with an answer.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, Midnight

An hon. member

Oh, oh!

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, Midnight

The Assistant Deputy Speaker John Nater

I am going to deal with that. I understand what the point of order is.

That was very much on the verge of being unparliamentary. It did not imply the member was that, so it did not cross that line, but we should be trying to keep our comments above board.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Montcalm.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, Midnight

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Mr. Speaker, I served on the Standing Committee on Health with my colleague. I am very familiar with, and deeply appreciative of, his personal commitment and all the efforts he makes to support suicide prevention. I think it is very generous of him to share these personal stories during tonight's debate. I wanted to reassure him.

As for eligibility and MAID for mental illness, I do not know what makes him say that he would have been eligible. I do not think he would have been. The proof is that he is here and that suicidality is reversible. It is only in a situation of irreversibility that we begin to assess the issue.

Suicidality is reversible and is not inevitable. The experts' report helped establish guidelines, as did the standards of practice established by the Canadian association of providers. I urge my colleague to review these guidelines. He will see that we are not allowing people who are suicidal to access MAID.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, 12:05 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George—Omineca, BC

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate our hon. colleague. I have a great deal of respect for our colleague all the way down at the far end there.

My comment is only that if this was available to those who are struggling with mental illness, again, we would have to make sure that all those safeguards were in place. I would have likely done whatever I could to access this at that time.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, 12:05 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, I want to really thank my colleague for a profound and thoughtful speech, for sharing the story about his mother as an example of somebody who changed their mind, who thought they would want one thing and then, in a moment, wanted something else. I suspect that the love and care that the member and others in his family showed may have influenced her decision to change direction at that point.

That story relates to a broader statistic. In the latest reports, 692 Canadians in one year made a request for MAID and then changed their minds. Where does that leave us with advance directives when a person signs a document that allows something to happen to them without them being asked at some future point when their circumstances have changed? Maybe they have adapted, maybe there are new aspects to their life, things they did not think they could deal with that they are dealing with, and they are happy in the midst of them. What should we say to those 692 Canadians in one year who made the choice, like his mother did, to change their minds?

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, 12:05 a.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George—Omineca, BC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague for the kind comments.

Our leader brought up our former colleague Lisa Raitt and her husband, who is living with dementia. She wonders what would have happened if he had made that advance directive early on. She knows full well that he is fully content. He would not have wanted to go forward with it.

All we are asking is to make sure that we, as parliamentarians, do our job and make sure we are looking after the most vulnerable of Canadians, putting those safeguards in place, answering and addressing the questions that the medical community and the experts have. That is our job, not rushing something through in the 11th hour.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, 12:05 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise to speak to the issue of medical assistance in dying, or as we call it more often in this country, government-assisted dying.

Canada is a pariah on the international stage when it comes to the way we have implemented this. Here is an interesting story. California and Canada legalized assisted dying, or assisted suicide in the case of California, in the same year at about the exact same time. California has about the same population as Canada. California has a very similar political outlook on the world as Canada. The difference in the application of MAID is profound, just in the raw numbers of it. In Canada, we have over 15,000 people a year ending their lives through MAID. It sounds like it is going to be more this year. In California, there are about 300 people per year. That is a huge difference, and there are lots of reasons for that. We can speculate about all of those reasons, but I just wanted to put that out there.

We are a distinct outlier in the world, in Canada, in terms of the MAID regime. I would point out that both Great Britain and Slovenia have looked at Canada, have had referendums on this issue and, because of the situation in Canada, have rejected the MAID regime entirely. They said they would not poison people to death and would demand that their health care systems promote the health care of their people, not the death of their people.

I remember back in 2016-17 when the first MAID bill came in. I remember saying that it was a radical bill and that this was going to be a slippery slope. I was wrong about that. It has been a cliff, not a slippery slope. We are now on our sixth piece of legislation expanding MAID. We thought Justin Trudeau was a radical prime minister on this file.

I remember being quite skeptical of Jody Wilson-Raybould and Jane Philpott. They kind of led the charge when it came to the Liberals bringing in the bill in the first place. I remember calling them radical and thinking they were radical. It turns out now that they were the voices of restraint when it came to this. I remember there were Liberals at the time who voted against the bill because they did not feel it went far enough. Here we are, once again, with an expansion of MAID in this country. There seems to be no concern or upper limit to the Liberals' desire for Canadians to have the right to end their lives.

Now, I would say that in Canada, the deaths of despair, whether they be drug overdose or whatever they are, continue to increase. We hear constantly, story after story, from family members of somebody who was offered MAID when they did not want it or took MAID when their family was unaware that they were even ill, and there is no recourse. There is no ability for the family to question what went on. They have no ability to get any information about it because the patient is dead, the patient is gone, and there was a discussion between the doctor and the patient.

Now the government wants to expand MAID once again, with advance directives. I would point out that advance directives have been a part of the discussion all the way through, and since 2015-16, they have been rejected all the way through. They have not been studied in depth the same way that MAID for mental illness has, and I would suggest that Canadians have firmly rejected MAID for mental illness.

The government has been supremely cynical by doing the thing that Canadians wanted it to do, by repealing MAID for mental illness, but putting advance directives for MAID in the same bill, pairing one off against the other. That is supremely cynical on behalf of the government. The Liberals had their opportunity to vote for Bill C-218, and they rejected it. I thought they just wanted to take credit for it, and they can take credit for it now that they are bringing the bill forward.

The piece around advance directives is about contemporaneous consent. I remember moving motions and amendments to the original bill, trying to emphasize contemporaneous consent. The California model requires that in the moment that MAID is being administered, a nod must be given or the patient must press the button, essentially.

Back in 2017, I felt the original MAID bill, I think it was Bill C-14 at the time, did not do enough to ensure contemporaneous consent, and here we are with advance directives being so far away from contemporaneous consent, because an advance directive could be signed decades before the situation ever arises. Maybe nobody has had a conversation for years about what advance directives even mean, but suddenly a number of different motivations have come into play. Suddenly, a bunch of people who are not the individual would be making a decision about whether this person should be euthanized or not, with no contemporaneous consent.

We have examples from around the world, such as from the Netherlands, where this kind of thing happens. There is a particularly horrific story about a Dutch lady who had dementia. She was physically very healthy. She was not in pain in any way whatsoever. She was happy and she ate well. She was living in an extended care facility, and her advance directive said that when she could no longer recognize her children, she would like MAID. That was what her advance directive said. She still had her faculties and could still participate in conversation. She knew what was happening day by day, but she did not recognize her children most of the time. That is 100% the truth.

On the day that she was going to be euthanized, she knew she was going to be euthanized, and she pleaded with everybody she came into contact with that day, telling them that she did not want to die. However, because there was an advance directive, her coffee was drugged and she was compelled. The horrific part about it and why it ended up being in the news is that her family had come and gathered around her, and they had to restrain her because the drugs from her coffee wore off. They had to restrain her while they euthanized her. That was a horrific experience for all involved, but it was what the advance directive said.

Despite the fact that she repeatedly said to multiple people that day that she did not want to die, she was euthanized. She was euthanized because her advance directive said that when she could no longer recognize her children, she did not want to live anymore. She was perfectly healthy. There was nothing physically wrong with her. She was eating well and she had joy in her life, but she could not recognize her children any longer.

That is not the case for every dementia patient. Some dementia patients live with a lot of angst, and we need to work to minimize the effects of dementia. Dementia is a horrific disease that I know about. I have experience with family members who had it, and it is a horrific disease. It is tragic to watch a loved one decline in that respect, but offering them MAID or having to compel somebody else to murder them is no solution to the problem.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, 12:15 a.m.

Liberal

Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Mr. Speaker, in his speech, my colleague described medical assistance in dying as radical. He used the term “government-assisted dying” rather than the correct term, “medical assistance in dying”. He described Canada as a pariah when it comes to our current policy. I think that sort of language is detrimental to the quality of the debate we are having this evening and fails to reflect the seriousness of the issues being discussed.

I would like to remind him that a recent Environics Research survey found that 85% of Canadians support medical assistance in dying, so there is a broad consensus. It is not a matter of course. It is about giving people a choice regarding their end-of-life care.

Throughout these debates, we have heard moving testimony from people who came forward to express their desire for us to respect their will. I would like to hear what my colleague has to say to these people who are asking us to respect their desire to have access to MAID.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, 12:15 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, the reality is that, with the Canadian system, it is a choice to some degree, but somebody else is administering it. This is government-assisted. That is the reality of the system. Whether the member wants to acknowledge that or not does not change that reality.

The world is watching. The United Nations has issued a directive to Canada saying that our MAID regime is not working appropriately and is a detriment to those living with disabilities. The member should read the report from the UN.

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, 12:15 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would briefly like to mention a minor concern. I have sat on clinical ethics committees before. The last thing we would be allowed to do is make a decision based on reported cases without full and comprehensive knowledge of the situation in question.

That said, I have been listening to the Conservatives since the debate started. They tell us that advance requests are not possible, even if a person is suffering, because that person could have other illnesses. It seems that they even object to advance directives. In a long-term care facility, there are different levels of care. If I have Alzheimer's and I have a heart attack, and I am not resuscitated, I suppose they would object to that.

What I want to know is what solution they have for people in declining health who are suffering, because suffering is part of it. What is the solution?

Bill C-41 Medical Assistance in Dying Safeguards ActGovernment Orders

November 5th, 12:20 a.m.

Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, to the point on advance directives, I am not opposed to advance directives. I would just point out to the member that, in most cases, an advance directive is a refusal of treatment or not compelling somebody to treat a person. This is a completely new world of compelling a doctor to murder someone. That is what an advance directive is.

When a given set of circumstances exists, laid out in an advance directive, we are compelling the health care system, a doctor or a health care practitioner, to kill a person. That is what this advance directive is. It is not a refusal of care.