Yes.
Evidence of meeting #7 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was letter.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #7 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was letter.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
In 1985, IAL reached an agreement with Thyssen that “In the event that a contract is signed...regarding...a plant in Bear Head Island, a one-time fee of...$4 million” would be paid, and on September 27, 1988, you, along with three ministers of the Mulroney government, signed an understanding in principle to support the building of Thyssen's light armoured vehicle facility in Cape Breton. As a result of the agreement, $4 million was paid to IAL.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
To be clear, this payment was made even though the plant was never set up. Is that correct?
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
You said that you came to an agreement with Mr. Mulroney at Harrington Lake that he would work for you. Did you expect the work to be done for nothing?
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
You're telling us that for the work Mr. Mulroney would be doing with you, which you ultimately paid out of the money coming from Thyssen, your understanding at Harrington Lake was that he would be working pro bono; he would be working for nothing, for no money?
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
While you didn't discuss the amount, the understanding was that he would receive funds from you for the work that you would do.
11:15 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes. I had to check first what was available, and I learned from the documents from the fifth estate that I think shortly after the meeting in Harrington Lake—it must have been ten days or something like that—I ordered the bank to open this account and transferred the money that was reserved at the Frankfurt account to the Britan account, which was for Mr. Mulroney, related to Cape Breton, the project.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
I'll restate it. You also stated last Thursday that the amount available for the project was $500,000.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
The bank records show that you transferred $500,000 from the Frankfurt account to the Britan account on July 26, 1993.
11:20 a.m.
As an Individual
When you say so, I take it that you have the account. But as I said, I investigated this earlier and the account was set up 10 or 15 days earlier.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
After having set up that account on July 26, or transferred the funds, the next day you withdrew $100,000 from the Britan account, which you later gave to Mr. Mulroney in August. Correct?
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
How did you know to transfer $500,000 to Britan, and more importantly, how did you know to bring $100,000 in cash to Brian Mulroney? Did somebody suggest that you bring the money in cash to him?
11:20 a.m.
As an Individual
It was not specifically discussed, but when you see that money was there in the account.... I would not have even been able to write a cheque or do something like this, so I took it in cash, like other days as well, and brought him the cash.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
But you could have done a bank-to-bank transfer or transferred it to the account of Mr. Mulroney, if you wanted a record of the transaction.
11:20 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, Mr. Thibault, but by this time it was not even clear what was going to happen. Mr. Mulroney said he would join a law firm, or he would go to a business, or whatever. I expected, more or less, that after he received the money he would send me a receipt and say, “I received this, and I want you to know I put it in a trust account with such-and-such a company, and I will bill for my services whenever that service is rendered.”
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
On the two subsequent payments of $100,000, I understand by that time Mr. Mulroney would have been well-established in business, but they were, again, cash payments, the exact same amount, in hotels.