Evidence of meeting #23 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pumps.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for your patience today.
Thank you to our witnesses.
I have a lot of concerns about this bill and also about the industry, because Windsor was very much the focus of some of the discussion by Measurement Canada and the original story in the Ottawa Citizen. The fact as well that, according to Measurement Canada, nobody has been charged despite there being all this evidence weakens it.
There is something that is important for this committee. On Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Electricity and Gas Inspection Act and the Weights and Measures Act, I'd like to ask the clerk how many witnesses we've had on electricity to this point in time, since electricity is the first thing and gas is the second. How many witnesses have we had on electricity in these hearings so far?
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
I will respond for the clerk.
We have not had any witnesses on electricity; however, that is due in part to none of the members of this committee having suggested witnesses from that sector.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
We've called for witnesses numerous times from members of the committee, and nobody has suggested anybody from the electricity sector.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
That's fair, Mr. Chair. This is a government bill.
How many witnesses have we had other than those from the gas sector on this bill, for example, from the retail sector?
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
A witness from the consumer sector failed to appear. That witness submitted a brief to us, and that will be incorporated and available to you.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you for your patience, Mr. Chair.
I just want to point something out for the record, because it is important. This ten percenter, this document we have here—and thank you to Mr. McTeague—is actually an important part of the discussion, because if this actually went out... We don't know. I'm looking at it right now, and it is critical, because I understand these things quite well, and this looks like a template you could easily drop information into. Usually the parties have a central organization that does that. They put the member's franking on it.
This is from Lisa Raitt, who is actually a cabinet minister. What really disturbs me is the fact that your industry has been singled out very much, clearly from the beginning. Mr. Clement was on CTV News pointing down at the camera saying “We're coming after you”, and he was talking about the retailers at the pump. This went out, so now public money from a cabinet minister has gone into influencing the debate while we're actually having hearings today at committee about the subject matter--
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I note that Mr. Masse is referring to a document that I believe he received from another member of the committee, but we haven't received any copies of this document, so we have nothing to refer to. It would be nice to--
9:45 a.m.
NDP
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
I have instructed the clerk not to distribute the document until it is in both official languages. If other members have obtained the document through other means, that is nothing that I, as chair, can prevent.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
It's okay. If the opposition parties want to hand the documents out to each other, that's fine.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
I'm happy if somebody wants to adjourn and copy the document and circulate it and put it--
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
We're not going to circulate the document in this committee, through the clerk, until it's in both official languages. I've ruled that, as chair, three or four times now.
Mr. Masse, you have the floor. You may continue.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
What's important about this is that you're testifying in front of us today about a position that I am actually a little concerned about with regard to the fact that no charges were laid. But the minister has been out there basically pushing the issue individually on your organization. Then we have literature paid for by the Canadian taxpayers, with a discussion about the Conservative Party and a picture of the minister and discussion points. Also, if you want to ask who's on the right track to protect consumers, it has the party leaders across the board that you can check off. What ends up happening is that people check them off and that goes into the data bank system they have, which they use for other types of mailings.
How do you feel, in terms of coming forth to the committee...? Once again, I've been concerned about the fact that no charges were laid, so I don't know whether the evidence wasn't strong enough or if Measurement Canada has been too lax. But it doesn't seem like much of a fair court here, when the fact of the matter is that the minister has singled you out in the actual discussion and we potentially have literature going out across the country--and we don't know if this is the only member it's been sent to. This looks like a template to me, where you can pop in the person's name.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I just want to clarify that under the rules that exist right now, ten percenters go to 10% of one's own riding, not across the country.
I'm curious, because Mr. Masse referred to the way ten percenters are used in the NDP. So I just want to clarify that he's talking about the NDP building databases and stuff with their ten percenters and questionnaires. I'm not sure he can speak for all of the parties. I'll leave it to him to be an expert on his own party, but I would just clarify that when he speaks of his personal knowledge of the way ten percenters work, he's speaking about the NDP.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
Okay. Thank you.
Now, I'm going to ask members of the committee—
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Michael Chong
Just one moment. Let me finish first.
Unless members of the committee have truly valid points of order concerning the rules and procedures of this committee, I'm going to ask that they wait their turn to be recognized so that we can ensure an uninterrupted flow of questions and comments by members of the committee.
Mr. Masse, you now have the floor. Go ahead.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Maybe you could actually provide some guidance, then, as to why no charges were laid, and also the fact that you've been targeted in this particular bill and you are the only organizations coming forth as witnesses, or who are a problem related to this. I say this because if we take you out of the equation, we won't have any witnesses and we won't have complaints. I don't have my constituency office people complaining about the measurement of their meat at the store.
So maybe you could give us some information or thoughts about why you've been targeted right in the bill.
9:50 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Independent Petroleum Marketers Association
Mr. Lake alluded earlier to the fact that consumer complaints come in from the gasoline sector but they don't come in when green beans are being measured. I don't know why, other than the fact that gasoline is a high-profile sector for consumers. Nonetheless, consumers are just as impacted--in fact, I would think more highly impacted--by the electricity sector and many of the other sectors we're talking about here today.
The fact that it covers all of the sectors is a good thing, because it is about confidence and measurement for consumers. But to single out gasoline continues to baffle me, especially in view of the context that our sector has the highest compliance, I think, at 94% and given that I'm not aware of any prosecutions under the Weights and Measures Act.