Public Safety Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2010

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I thank you for your work. And I know a lot of people here on the other side think it's so easy to be a police officer, and it's just so easy....

Recently in my riding of Huron—Bruce, we had Commissioner Lewis presenting awards in our area for all the great work of the men and women who wear the uniform, show up for work every day, and put their lives on the line.

I'd like to thank the OPP and the Toronto police and all the people who participated in providing security. I'd like to thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Lobb.

Mr. Rathgeber, please.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for your attendance here today.

I'd like to start with Chief Blair and Commissioner Beechey and to commend you for the work you and your organizations did. The policing was obviously very difficult. It was a very challenging time with trying to balance the security of the attendees at the conferences and those who were engaged in peaceful protests. I commend you.

You mentioned in your opening comments, Chief Blair, that it was an explicit part of your mandate to facilitate peaceful protests and you regarded that as one of your responsibilities. I agree with that and I agree with its importance. I wonder if you could provide the committee with some details as to how you and the security partners were able to facilitate the peaceful protests. What tactics did you employ?

[Chief William Blair]

Actually, we worked very closely with our citizens and with various groups that were planning to engage in protest. We met with the organizers of the majority of those protests that took place throughout the week. We offered our assistance in helping them plan their events and helped provide safe rallying points to work together collaboratively in providing security for that event. I believe very sincerely that it was the intent of the overwhelming majority of people who came to Toronto to protest to do so lawfully and peacefully. We worked very closely with them.

I think we have a good tradition in this country. I believe I have a good tradition in Toronto in doing everything we can to facilitate lawful, peaceful protests. There is a line, of course, where you have to ensure that balance between the right of the public to be safe and secure and the right of our individual citizens to express themselves. We find it's best to keep that balance by working collaboratively with the people who are planning these protests.

For example, we also worked to provide a place where people could rally. It has often been called a sort of “free speech zone”, and it was not, and I made very public statements as we prepared for the summit that all of Canada is a free speech zone. But we did provide a facility in the northern part of Queen's Park where people could rally, where they could gather, and we would work with them to help them park their cars and gather safely. We would direct traffic around them and move with them as they engaged in protest. That took place on several occasions. There was even a demonstration on Saturday involving tens of thousands of lawful, peaceful protesters who we were working with and walking with and we had great cooperation from them.

It's very unfortunate that the right of Canadians to engage in lawful, peaceful protest was compromised by the actions of criminal groups who made it impossible, frankly.

I have to tell you that one of the challenges of trying to police lawful, peaceful protests and respect all citizens' rights to express themselves is that it's very difficult when you're also trying to manage a mob. The mob was using the cover of a large, law-abiding crowd to launch their illegal attacks on the city and on our citizens. It did compromise our ability, to some extent, to continue to work to maintain those lawful, peaceful protests and the protestors' rights to do that.

Even after the riot had taken place, there were other protests that were taking place and that we were able to work with, but some of our ability to do that was made very difficult. Even as we moved with 10,000 people, with several hundred were attacking our city, we stayed with the 10,000 and we got them back safely to their points of origin. We allowed them to do what they had come to do, which was to protest lawfully.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Blair.

We'll now move to Madame Mendes.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, Mr. Gagnon, I would like to congratulate you for being here after what you went through last summer. If I had been in your place, I think that I would have been very hesitant to come and face authority figures again, whoever they were. I congratulate you for your courage.

I don't want to judge, Chief Blair, what really happened or not, or how you based your intention to arrest on the Sunday morning. I do want to question how it happened and what happened.

The way these kids were treated was inhuman. You may have had all the reasons to arrest them, but they were sleeping. They didn't need the force and the kind of aggressive manhandling that they got.

My only question is, why did your officers think it necessary to manhandle them that way?

[Chief William Blair]

Again, with great respect--

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

And I mean, he's not the first--

[Chief William Blair]

No, that's fine, but there is a mechanism, an appropriate mechanism, which is regulated in our laws, for investigating complaints against the conduct of the police. For people who have made complaints, we have an independent police review process in the province of Ontario. It allows someone who's not part of the police, who has the resources and a legal mandate, to conduct such investigations.

I understand that he has those complaints and he's investigating them. Frankly, my responsibility is to do everything I can to cooperate and to provide him with the evidence and information he needs to do his job, and then I will respect the decisions he makes on the basis of that evidence.

I'm unable to respond to the allegations that you bring forward today, except to tell you that those matters are being investigated by an appropriate body that has the authority to do so, and the police services are cooperating with that body in that investigation.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you for that.

Were there closed-circuit cameras at the detention centre like there were in downtown Toronto?

[Chief William Blair]

Yes, there were cameras every 10 feet, in fact. I went through the facility to ensure that there was thorough coverage of the video cameras. Any areas that were not covered by camera were marked off and blocked off and no prisoners were taken into those areas. So with the exception of places where people were going to be searched, where privacy must be assured, there were cameras in those facilities both to provide protection to the prisoners who were being processed there and also to help us have evidence to respond to allegations of misconduct.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

At the gymnasium where the kids were staying and where they were arrested, were there any closed-circuit cameras there?

[Chief William Blair]

Not to my knowledge. I have no knowledge of that; I wasn't there. I'm aware that those arrests were made. I wasn't involved in that investigation. If there are complaints about that event, then they're most appropriately made, again, to the Office of the Independent Police Review Director.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I understand, yes. I understand that is ongoing right now.

[Chief William Blair]

Yes.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Do you have any idea when we can expect a result?

[Chief William Blair]

I think you'd have to make that inquiry of the OIPRD. Quite frankly, he takes as long as he takes. We provide every assistance to him so that he might fulfill his mandate.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mark, do you want to ask any more questions?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You have about two minutes.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'm just wondering, Mr. Blair, if I can come back to the question that I asked earlier. This was going to the chain of the command. I'm just wondering if you could take a moment now, if you recall that question, to....

[Chief William Blair]

I do recall the question. We had a rather well-documented chain of command for the protection of the summit site. In our integrated security unit, we have a number of people on the ground, our operational commanders on the ground, who are out on the street and who have the ability to make decisions based on what they're observing.

In the summit site, that was managed primarily through the unified command centre as led by the ISU. On the streets of Toronto, most of that command work came back through our major incident command centre.

The persons in charge of the major incident command centre are employees of the Toronto Police Service. They're my people; they were superintendents. They're extremely experienced in dealing with large incidents and public order incidents. Two of those officers, each working 12 hours, day and evening, were responsible for running our major incident command centre.

When you asked me about the chain of command, it really depends on which events. Some is related--

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I will speak specifically to the question, because it was the chair of the Toronto Police Services Board who described this grey area. He was saying that it was unclear how much influence the integrated security unit, led by the RCMP, had over policing decisions. He said that had created the complications with respect to accountability. Do you agree with him on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Holland.

[Chief William Blair]

I agree that they seek clarification for that. We're providing them with that clarification, to our Police Services Board.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Blair.

We'll come back to the government side.

Mr. Norlock, please, for five minutes.