Evidence of meeting #38 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was summit.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax—Pickering, ON
But you were never consulted as to where in Toronto would be a good place to hold it, as an example, or how the security would unfold if it were to happen there?
4:05 p.m.
Chief, Toronto Police Service
I think it may be unfair to suggest that. Certainly even in my conversations with Mr. Elcock we talked about the logistics of holding an event in Toronto. We did talk a little bit about locations and where the hotels might be located--for example, where the media might be located.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax—Pickering, ON
But as I understand it, you had general conversations around logistics. It was never consultative over whether ”we should put it here” or “we should put it there” or--
4:05 p.m.
Chief, Toronto Police Service
We were not directly involved in the decision as to where the event should take place, but when we were advised where it was taking place, we were well along in planning our processes.
Quite frankly, there are only one or two places in the city of Toronto where such an event could take place, so we had a reasonable apprehension of where it was likely to be and began planning for that.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax—Pickering, ON
I know that the mayor of Toronto suggested that the city was left in the dark with respect to many of the security decisions. Is that a feeling you share? Can you say as you were moving forward on security decisions whether you shared the mayor's sentiment on that?
Secondly, can you run me through how exactly the chain of command worked? The chair of the Toronto Police Services Board said, “I do not believe that we yet have a full and complete understanding of the decision-making process and the governance structures that were in place” for the G-20. He goes on to say that it remains unclear how much influence the integrated security unit led by the RCMP had over local policing decisions and that this created a grey area over exactly who was accountable for certain orders.
Do you share those feelings? If so, can you--
4:05 p.m.
Chief, Toronto Police Service
First of all.... You've asked me a couple of questions, Mr. Holland. On your first question, I believe that we were involved in those security discussions. I did not feel left in the dark. As we became aware of the event, we were working very closely with our policing partners and with the RCMP. We had senior personnel on the planning team of the integrated security unit and in the planning process right from the outset.
On what was transpiring at a political level, quite frankly, I'm not involved in, but in the planning and preparation of security...the timelines were tight, but I did not feel we were being left out or kept in the dark in the preparation of those events. My people were in those processes and we were fully participating.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax—Pickering, ON
I'll come back to the second question in a second, but if I can, I will add this to it, because I know I'm running out of time. Normally with a process of this nature, this large.... You said that you knew in about January that the G-20 was coming, in around that timeframe, which is only several months before the event. Normally--if you could add this to the other question--how long a lead time would you like to have in order to be able to plan properly?
4:10 p.m.
Chief, Toronto Police Service
I'd like to have a huge amount of lead time, sir. There's--
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Chief, Toronto Police Service
This is the first time we've policed an event of this kind, but usually in preparation for a very large-scale event.... I know, for example, that the planning for the Olympics, for that event--and that was a sports celebration--took place over a period of about four years. Now that probably would be a reasonable expectation, but.... Certainly the timelines, the planning lines, were tight, but we were working through them as quickly as we could.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
November 3rd, 2010 / 4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for coming to testify, gentlemen.
Mr. Gagnon, could you clarify something in your testimony for me? Do you still have charges against you or were they dropped?
4:10 p.m.
As an Individual
Right. Everyone in the gymnasium had the charges against them dropped.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Okay.
You mentioned getting an injection or having a tuberculosis test. Did the person who gave it to you say that it was a tuberculosis test?
4:10 p.m.
As an Individual
It's starting to be some time ago now.
I recall being told that it was a tuberculosis test, that I had to take it and that I could not refuse.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
4:10 p.m.
As an Individual
No, especially since I had not been to court yet. I thought I at least deserved to go to court once before people started injecting things into my body.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Mr. Blair, I have some questions for you.
I have met a number of people who were arrested during the G20. Others have contacted me by phone or email. A number of them believe that your officers thought that martial law was in effect. When some of the detainees asked them, they replied pretty much that, because of martial law, they could do what they liked, that there was no need to see lawyers or that they would be the ones deciding when the detainees could see one. People have told me that.
Did you tell your people that martial law was in effect and that the rights of citizens were suspended when they were arrested?
4:10 p.m.
Chief, Toronto Police Service
No. Let me be very clear.
First of all, every police officer who was working on the G-8 and G-20 summit sites undertook training on the limits of their legal authority. It was about six hours of classroom training and then a full day of practical training to ensure every officer knew the limits of their authority. There was no period of time where any such thing as martial law was declared. In fact, we ensured that all our officers received training.
Now, if there are complaints about the individual conduct of police officers in any capacity, then those complaints are most appropriately brought forward to the Office of the Independent Police Review Director, who has a legislated responsibility to investigate those complaints, and there is an accountability for the police through that process.
