Evidence of meeting #38 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was summit.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you.
I believe Mr. McColeman has some questions for you.
November 3rd, 2010 / 4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Yes, I do.
I just want to step back for a second and ask Mr. Gagnon a question, because he didn't get a chance to answer it. Have you ever heard of or are you aware of the Anti-Capitalist Convergence?
4:40 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, I know that it exists now. But when I wanted to go to the G20 summit, I just sent an e-mail to transportg20@gmail.com. That was the service that got us to Toronto. Then you could demonstrate for whatever you wanted.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Were you aware they had transported individuals such as you--students--into Toronto and had prepared a poster and other materials that read, “Come to Toronto--Attack the G-20”? Did you ever see that poster?
4:45 p.m.
As an Individual
No, I did not see posters like that. I had my own, one that I made for myself. I knew no one on the buses. I really was there on my own.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
As an Individual
No, not at all. I am not a member of any organization. I do not even demonstrate on a regular basis. I have been to five demonstrations in my life.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Okay. Also, in terms of the individuals who were there, either during your trip or when you arrived in Toronto, did you meet with or make contact with any of the individuals who were obviously using black bloc tactics? Were you in close proximity to them or were you ever aware of their activities while you were there?
4:45 p.m.
As an Individual
No, not at all. A lot of CLAC people were arrested and I met them afterwards at meetings. But I do not know anyone with a profile like that. They have political views that I do not share at all, but they caused no damage or anything of the sort. Most of them were sleeping with us in the gymnasium and all the charges against them were dropped.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
No, thank you, Mr. McColeman. Our time is up.
We'll move over to the Bloc.
Mr. Gaudet, you have five minutes.
4:45 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Blair and Mr. Giroux, I have seen the photos. How come you did not arrest the people in disguises and masks? You went into a university gymnasium at four o'clock in the morning and you arrested people as they slept.
There were people in masks. But it was not Halloween weekend, it was June. Halloween is October 31. How come you did not arrest those people on the spot? They were all together. It would have been easy to surround them and take them off to prison. That would have settled the matter for the weekend. But you let them go and, instead, you arrested some poor students in a university gymnasium. Can you explain the logic behind that?
4:45 p.m.
Chief, Toronto Police Service
Certainly, sir, I'd be delighted to explain that to you. This was a crowd of several thousand, and for the police to penetrate into that crowd in an effort to apprehend those individuals.... First of all, they had not yet begun to riot tumultuously, as they did the following day. So unfortunately, there needs to be access—
4:45 p.m.
Bloc
4:45 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
You knew what you had to do. You should have arrested them immediately. But no, the force's finest went to a university gymnasium the next morning. It is ridiculous.
4:45 p.m.
Chief, Toronto Police Service
Mr. Gaudet, if I may answer your question, the decision was made to not try to penetrate that crowd, because it would have created a more dangerous situation. In fact, an operational decision was made by the investigators that a safer place to apprehend people whom they believed were involved in criminal activity was the school gymnasium, away from the crowd. That was a safer thing to do.
Our responsibility is to maintain the rule of law and to protect the public, but also to do our job in a way that does not compromise public safety. The decision was made to not try to penetrate that crowd to remove this group, but rather to do it in a safer environment, which was why the arrests were made in a school gymnasium in the very early hours of the morning, as opposed to out on the street where a riot might have ensued.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Blair, you said that you made the choice to make the arrests in the gymnasium. So you made the assumption that there were people…
4:45 p.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
They assumed that there were black block people in the gymnasium. That's why they went there.
4:45 p.m.
Chief, Toronto Police Service
No. Again, without getting into the details of that arrest, which are for other processes, the police had reason to believe the people they were arresting were involved in criminal activity. There were a number of different investigations that were taking place with respect to that group. Evidence had been gathered that gave the police reasonable and probable grounds, and when the crowd—
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
You said that you had evidence; so how is it that none of the people you arrested in that gymnasium have charges against them any more? Perhaps one or two still do because they refuse to plead guilty.