Bill C-11

Online Streaming Act

An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts

This enactment amends the Broadcasting Act to, among other things,
(a) add online undertakings — undertakings for the transmission or retransmission of programs over the Internet — as a distinct class of broadcasting undertakings;
(b) specify that the Act does not apply in respect of programs uploaded to an online undertaking that provides a social media service by a user of the service, unless the programs are prescribed by regulation;
(c) update the broadcasting policy for Canada set out in section 3 of the Act by, among other things, providing that the Canadian broadcasting system should
(i) serve the needs and interests of all Canadians, including Canadians from Black or other racialized communities and Canadians of diverse ethnocultural backgrounds, socio-economic statuses, abilities and disabilities, sexual orientations, gender identities and expressions, and ages, and
(ii) provide opportunities to Indigenous persons, programming that reflects Indigenous cultures and that is in Indigenous languages, and programming that is accessible without barriers to persons with disabilities;
(d) enhance the vitality of official language minority communities in Canada and foster the full recognition and use of both English and French in Canadian society, including by supporting the production and broadcasting of original programs in both languages;
(e) specify that the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (the “Commission”) must regulate and supervise the Canadian broadcasting system in a manner that
(i) takes into account the different characteristics of English, French and Indigenous language broadcasting and the different conditions under which broadcasting undertakings that provide English, French or Indigenous language programming operate,
(ii) takes into account, among other things, the nature and diversity of the services provided by broadcasting undertakings,
(iii) ensures that any broadcasting undertaking that cannot make maximum or predominant use of Canadian creative and other human resources in the creation, production and presentation of programming contributes to those Canadian resources in an equitable manner,
(iv) promotes innovation and is readily adaptable toscientific and technological change,
(v) facilitates the provision to Canadians of Canadian programs in both official languages, including those created and produced by official language minority communities in Canada, as well as Canadian programs in Indigenous languages,
(vi) facilitates the provision of programs that are accessible without barriers to persons with disabilities,
(vii) facilitates the provision to Canadians of programs created and produced by members of Black or other racialized communities,
(viii) protects the privacy of individuals who aremembers of the audience of programs broadcast, and
(ix) takes into account the variety of broadcasting undertakings to which the Act applies and avoids imposing obligations on any class of broadcasting undertakings if that imposition will not contribute in a material manner to the implementation of the broadcasting policy;
(f) amend the procedure relating to the issuance by the Governor in Council of policy directions to the Commission;
(g) replace the Commission’s power to impose conditions on a licence with a power to make orders imposing conditions on the carrying on of broadcasting undertakings;
(h) provide the Commission with the power to require that persons carrying on broadcasting undertakings make expenditures to support the Canadian broadcasting system;
(i) authorize the Commission to provide information to the Minister responsible for that Act, the Chief Statistician of Canada and the Commissioner of Competition, and set out in that Act a process by which a person who submits certain types of information to the Commission may designate the information as confidential;
(j) amend the procedure by which the Governor in Council may, under section 28 of that Act, set aside a decision of the Commission to issue, amend or renew a licence or refer such a decision back to the Commission for reconsideration and hearing;
(k) specify that a person shall not carry on a broadcasting undertaking, other than an online undertaking, unless they do so in accordance with a licence or they are exempt from the requirement to hold a licence;
(l) harmonize the punishments for offences under Part II of that Act and clarify that a due diligence defence applies to the existing offences set out in that Act; and
(m) allow for the imposition of administrative monetary penalties for violations of certain provisions of that Act or of the Accessible Canada Act .
The enactment also makes related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you.

I think we all agree that a copy and paste solution won't work. I would like to hear from you directly about how Bill C-11 excludes individuals from these requirements. We've heard you use just today the term “platforms in, users out”. You've used that many times. Can you expand on what you mean when you say that?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. I appreciate your time and that you're listening to the arts sector.

Over the course of the study, we've heard witness after witness tell just how vital this bill is for our cultural sector and how urgent it is to get it through.

I have a few quotes here from what we've heard. We heard from the CEO of Music Publishers Canada, Margaret McGuffin earlier this week, who said that Bill C‑11 provides “an important balance by giving the commission the tools it needs to regulate when market forces fail. Modernizing the Broadcasting Act will ensure that, as technology evolves and online platforms continue to grow, [the music industry will] continue to thrive.”

Randy Kitt from Unifor told us:

Bill C-11 is just a much-needed update to the Broadcasting Act to ensure that Canadians have access to Canadian local programming, which couldn't happen if we let these Internet giants control our media.... Let's not get sidetracked by noise.

Bill Skolnik from the Coalition for the Diversity of Cultural Expressions told us:

We can only hope that this attempt to revise our legislation will conclude shortly so the benefits can reach Canadian creators, artists, producers and organizations as soon as possible. They have been waiting for a very long time.

I have one more quote, from Marla Boltman from the organization Friends, who told us:

Requiring contributions from foreign tech giants that extract billions of dollars from our country will help sustain our industry while driving investment and innovation in the creation of Canadian content that continues to reflect our diversity of voices and who we are as Canadians. Foreign contributions will level the playing field between Canadian broadcasters and foreign platforms. Frankly, it sends a message to the world that Canada is open for business, but there are no more free rides. If you benefit from the system, you must contribute to it.

I couldn't agree any more with those quotes. This is a badly needed update to our broadcasting system, which will support Canadian culture for years to come.

We've spent a lot of time talking about this. I'd like to ask you this directly, Minister: What will this bill do for our Canadian culture and our artists?

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

I agree. However, as you said, Canadian content does not qualify as official CanCon under the current rules, so this poses a big problem for the platforms.

Are they required to carry Canadian content, but the Canadian content they have does not count because it's outdated rules that will apply? Will you commit to ensuring that our Canadian content rules are updated at least one year in advance of implementing Bill C-11?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Colleagues and friends, Mr. Chair, members of the committee, I want to begin by thanking you for your work. I know that you have spent more than 20 hours on this study. I'd also like to thank the witnesses.

This is an extremely important bill. It has led to many, often heated debates at the committee, and that makes perfect sense.

It's a debate about the fact that we now live in a digital world and, therefore, that we need policies and legislation that are built for that digital world. Honestly, I think Bill C-11 is the way to do it.

What will Bill C‑11 change, specifically?

First, Bill C‑11 will support our artists and creators. It will foster the creation of good jobs in the cultural sector, make Canadian content more accessible and make it easier for people to find homegrown Canadian music and stories.

Second, online streaming platforms will need to contribute to Canadian culture. I think this is self-evident and extremely important.

It's long past time that the streaming platforms contribute their fair share to our culture, just as traditional broadcasters have done up to now. We have a cultural policy system that has served Canadians for decades here and around the world, but Canada and the world have changed.

The reality right now is that platforms are taking up more and more room in our lives and that an increasing number of Canadians are cancelling their cable subscriptions. In fact, over 70% of Canadians now subscribe to platforms. The industry is here to stay and is likely going to experience further growth.

Bill C‑11 is designed to ensure that our next generation of artists and creators can succeed in the digital age.

While following the debates, I heard a number of interesting ideas, such as redefining Canadian content; adding provisions to support indigenous peoples and racialized Canadians; providing more support to our cultural sector workers; and much more.

We also heard last week from a founding member of The Tragically Hip, one of Canada's most beloved bands, on why we need to do this, and why we need to do this now.

I have also heard concerns and criticism. That's normal. You know what? We need that. It's a normal discussion around a bill.

The government has been extremely clear that we have no intention of regulating what people post online, as some have claimed. While I think we have made this clear in Bill C-11, I have always said that I'm open to improving it.

As a former House leader—and Mr. Julian would know this—I know that we need to work together, particularly in a minority Parliament. I'm committed to doing that. Actually, I would say that I've been doing that since day one. But I'm also committed to passing this bill, because it's what Canada needs. It's what Canadians voted for. To be honest, all of the parties here in this room had something like this in their platform.

As we have said since the beginning, Bill C-11 is about the obligations of platforms, not users. I always say it: platforms in, users out. That's the key point. It's about bringing online broadcasters into our system. It's about creating more space for diverse voices and stories.

Decades ago, we made the choice to defend our culture. We made that choice because our stories matter a great deal to us. These stories bind us, unite us and set us apart from others.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if you benefit from the system, you need to contribute to it. It's as simple as that.

This is a debate about fairness and, of course, the debate won't end here. The bill will be further debated in the House and by the Senate.

After royal assent of the bill, I will provide a policy direction to the CRTC. Once the CRTC receives the policy direction, they're going to hold public hearings and develop the regulations, as they've always done as a public interest regulator.

I'm ready to take your questions.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

Order. Good afternoon, everyone. You're stuck with me today. Madam Fry asked if I would chair today's committee, so here we are.

Welcome to meeting number 31 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe peoples.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, May 12, 2022, the committee is meeting in consideration of Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of Thursday, November 25, 2021.

Obviously, we have been doing this long enough. I don't think I need to go over the rules for the hybrid format.

In recognition of the minister's time—we do have a 4:30 p.m. hard stop with the minister today—I will go straight to welcoming the Honourable Pablo Rodriguez, Minister of Canadian Heritage.

Mr. Minister, you have the floor.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Now we're back on the amendment as I understand it, which is the amendment to have the time for amendments to Bill C-11 extended to three days before clause-by-clause.

As I was saying, the reason we should be doing this is to allow for the time. I appreciate that other parties are willing to look at submitting their amendments before the list of witnesses were expired. We believe there is an opportunity and we need time as a party to prepare the appropriate amendments to a very complex bill on an important piece of legislation—the Broadcasting Act—which is not being reviewed by Parliament nor had a major amendment in 31 years, as I understand it.

The ability by the government and its dance partner, the NDP, to rush this through is a difficult situation that doesn't allow the opposition to do its due diligence, which needs to be done on behalf of Canadians to consider the appropriate amendments to the bill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

—for informing me of what I can and cannot do.

I would like to suggest that we have a member of this committee challenge that I should not have ruled it in order for a very specific reason of clarification of which minister it is. I am entertaining that.

We have had people raising points of clarification during the course of hearings on Bill C-11. People have wanted things in writing, wanted them in both official languages, because they did not understand what these meant.

A member is now suggesting that he does not understand what the subamendment means. The subamendment is not necessarily out of order, but there is a point of clarification being raised by one of our colleagues, and I am listening to it. Mr. Perkins also heard it.

While in theory this subamendment is in order, I think that the degree of uncertainty about the minister is a very important point.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

For our part, we like to hear you, Madam Chair.

That said, I don't know if the point raised by Mr. Julian was really a point of order, so I don't know if I should raise a point of order or simply ask for clarification. In any event, I want to say that the Bloc Québécois has also been working for several days to prepare amendments to Bill C-11, and we will be tabling them by tomorrow, Friday, at 4 p.m., in accordance with what we have been trying to get passed since the beginning of the week.

I wanted to say that we, too, think it's very important that the bill be allowed to go forward. So we are going to be ready and our amendments will be sent to the legislative clerk tomorrow, before 4 p.m., as the committee generally wishes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, again, the motion that was moved at this committee says:

That the committee hear witnesses on the topic of Bill C-11, an Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts for one meeting lasting five hours during the week of May 23, 2022; that the committee continue to hear witnesses for an additional three meetings lasting five hours each during the week of May 30, 2022; and that during the meeting of Tuesday, May 24, 2022, no motion shall be moved.

That is—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, I'll also seek clarity on one other thing.

You seemed quite firm about there being a certain date by which we need to report this bill back to the House. That was never put forward to this committee. In fact, the extract from the Journals of the House of Commons, as of Thursday, May 12, reads:

That Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Within that, there is no deadline by which this committee has to report this bill back to the House. Madam Chair, I'm wondering if you have secret information the rest of us are not privy to, and, if so, why that hasn't been tabled for the committee to see.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you for that clarification, Madam Chair.

Well, the amendment in front of us is that we would expand the time frame granted to be able to put forward amendments to Bill C-11. The reason I'm asking for that extra time is that I would like to propose that we hear from more witnesses. Now, I realize that right now we can't have that conversation in good faith. I'd love to have that conversation following a vote on this amendment and the substance of the motion itself.

The reason for that, of course, is that I believe that we as parliamentarians have a responsibility to hear from a diverse set of voices before moving forward and making decisions with regard to this bill. The point of bringing a bill to committee is so that it can be spoken to by witnesses from various backgrounds so they can add their voice, which may be in support of various aspects of the bill or perhaps the bill in whole, or it could—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, those of us on this side of the table had every intent of hearing from the minister today, and we do have every intent on being reasonable about when amendments are due. That has been our position throughout this week as this topic of conversation has come forward. However, there seems to be a desire at this table to prolong, to keep delaying an opportunity to hear from witnesses, in particular today to hear from the minister who has graciously given us his time to speak to Bill C-11. Now it looks like we will not have that opportunity, because a motion has been brought forward to the floor. Even though I moved that we suspend or adjourn debate, that motion was voted down by the members opposite. So, instead, they're insisting that we continue to have this debate on the motion that was brought forward earlier concerning amendments—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Yes, there is a motion on the floor that I am amending. I am asking for additional time before amendments to Bill C-11 are due at the committee.

It's hard to know when the start of clause-by-clause is going to begin. That would have to be a further conversation by this committee, which again would take place at another time, because part of of the decision about when clause-by-clause would begin would be for us to determine if we have heard from enough witnesses, or would desire to hear from a few more.

Again, there would be appetite on this side of the table at least to give time to a few more, to be able to hear from other Canadians who are going to be impacted by Bill C‑11 and have not yet had an opportunity to add their voice.

In front of me, I have a list of a total of 119 witnesses who were put forward to be considered by the committee. Of those, there are actually more than 50 who have not yet had an opportunity to come to speak. If we were to decide to move clause-by-clause back a bit and to hear from those witnesses, then whenever we decide to set that date for clause-by-clause consideration to commence, we would have to have our amendments in three days prior to that.

That's my proposal. That's what's on the table right now for this committee to consider. I'd love to have a conversation on that. I guess whether or not there would be appetite at this table for giving a little more time for those amendments to be drafted so that we can thoroughly review the testimony that has been submitted in writing as well as the testimony that has been granted here in person from those who have—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, I am not changing my amendment. It stands as is, which is that the deadline for the amendments to Bill C-11 be moved to three days before the start of clause-by-clause.

I believe you gave me the mike so I could speak to my motivation. My motivation for moving this amendment is that we might be able to hear from more witnesses.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

As I was saying, there is still an opportunity here for this committee, because, as you've stated, the committee is the commander of its own destiny. If the committee does decide that it wishes to hear from more witnesses, there is no reason why it can't do that, which is the conversation I would love to have.

Again, we cannot have that conversation directly; however, it does relate to the amendment I have moved to the motion on the floor, because I am making that amendment in order to allow for more time so that we could possibly hear from more witnesses.

The reason I believe that it is important to hear from more witnesses is that we have many voices that have not yet been represented. For example, one of the things that Bill C-11 is intended to do, or so claims the minister, is to protect or contend for diversity. Now—