Evidence of meeting #4 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nds.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:40 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I cannot say with any certainty, but I would say fewer than five.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
It was fewer than five times? You talked about the detainee issue at least once or twice?
3:40 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
We would talk about issues we were concerned about, things we would characterize as “mission killers”.
3:40 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
This was one of those.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
With General Hillier, it was essentially the same? Okay.
I have a question about the JTF 2. Without endangering the troops and without breaching national security, is there anything you can tell us about the JTF 2 and its work with U.S. forces or otherwise? Did you have any concerns about it?
3:45 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I don't have any specific concerns about the JTF 2 beyond the concerns that we all shared, I believe, with respect to the NDS.
My understanding--and it's certainly not thorough, and I didn't spend a lot of time with the JTF 2 while I was on the ground in Kandahar--is that they follow the same processes for transferring detainees over to the NDS that the battle group does, so that the commander at the time is still forced to make the decision of whether to transfer or release, whether someone was captured via special forces operations or via the general interaction with our battle group troops.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
3:45 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I have the same concern that we just spoke about right now regarding the NDS, regardless of how the people were picked up.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
3:45 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
It is an institution built on secrecy, and it is not necessarily always the most transparent and willing to share information. That behaviour makes it difficult for us to have confidence.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
You're over time.
Thank you very much, Mr. Anderson.
Madam Lalonde.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
Mr. Anderson, I want to get a better sense of some of the things you said in the beginning, when you talked about the difficult nature—that is how I took it—of your relationship with the NDS and detainees, with respect to the population. Where were you located when you were there? Were you in Kandahar?
3:45 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I spent my entire time on assignment in Kandahar, not in Kabul. At the beginning, in 2006-07, I was based at Kandahar airfield. Then I made a variety of trips on behalf of the Government of Canada with the PRT. That culminated in a job as political director of the PRT in Kandahar City.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
As the political director of the PRT, were you in contact with the population?
3:45 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Absolutely--almost every day.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
So then you were in a position to understand that the army's treatment of prisoners was important to the population, and that the population could have a negative view if it thought that prisoners were not being treated well.
3:45 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
Did you discuss the problem you described to us with General Hillier, for example?
3:45 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I never discussed anything that specific with General Hillier. More of my contact with senior military officials was with individuals like General Gauthier and the specific commanders who were in charge of Joint Task Force Afghanistan during their time on the ground, starting with General Grant and going through General Laroche, General Thompson, and General Vance.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
At one point, you said that the problem was duplicity, and that you were never able to solve it but that you had tried.
3:50 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes. On more than one occasion we tried to work with the NDS by offering them human rights training. We had a very substantive program established through the Global Peace and Security Fund to provide infrastructure improvements--a large wall on their compound. They were attacked twice during my time in Kandahar and suffered some damage.
We tried to initiate a more personal relationship with their senior officials on the civilian side. That was one of my priorities as political director. I endeavoured to spend more time with them on a personal basis to try to get to know them a little more so we didn't always just have to show up and meet them for detainee interviews. It was difficult. They were busy people themselves. They spent lots of time outside of the NDS compound and were not interested in coming to the PRT. In order to facilitate any type of relationship with them, we always had to go to them. There are inherent challenges with that, as I'm sure you're aware, travelling back and forth between the PRT and the NDS facility on a daily basis.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
Were you able to determine why the people at the NDS had that attitude and used violence and force? Did you try to figure it out, and did you come up with any answers or theories?