Evidence of meeting #4 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nds.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
No, it's not.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Okay, I asked just so we're clear on that.
What I also heard you say was that in your experience, while there was a receptivity to training within the prison system within Afghanistan and within policing, and so on, which we've been engaged in, you didn't find the same receptivity with respect to the NDS. Is that fair?
4:15 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
That's correct.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
In fact you describe the duplicity within the NDS as being endemic.
4:15 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
What do you mean by that? Give me some examples. Give me a specific example that lets me understand what that means, when you say so as an official who's been there for nearly two years.
4:15 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I am aware of the public setting we are currently in, which makes answering a question such as that a little bit difficult.
We have uncovered numerous examples in our time working with the NDS where not only were they not receptive to additional training, as you mentioned, but also were subject to different pressures and behaviour that not only gave me pause, in terms of having them as a viable institution, but also the Canadian Forces and ISAF writ large. It could be anything from bribery to pressure, including tribal pressure and pressure from specific individuals in Kandahar, the power players within the community who may or may not have liked the fact that Canada had picked up, by way of hypothetical example, an individual in Panjwai and transferred him to the NDS, but who happened to be the brother or cousin of someone of influence in Kandahar, and lo and behold a few days later he would be back out on the street. That happened with regularity.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I understand the pressures you're under, and nobody's trying to put you on the spot. I assume you have discussed your presence here and your testimony with your colleagues at the foreign affairs department—
4:15 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I have.
4:15 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I have.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I have.
4:15 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
They have told me that my responsibilities as a public servant are not to be admonished during the committee hearings. So the ability to speak frankly in a setting like this is made more difficult by interpretations by the Ministry of Justice on what actually pertains to be national security and operational imperatives.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I haven't been told there are certain specific things I can't tell you. What I've been told is that I as a public servant am still under the terms of any public servant, and those are defined by the Ministry of Justice, in my view, quite rigidly.
4:15 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I've had conversations with individuals who have approached me proactively offering their services.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
When you said you talked to the minister about NDS, did you share with any minister or with anyone in a position of responsibility what you've described today as a pattern of duplicity with respect to NDS?
4:20 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I didn't have to. We have had these conversations in large groups all across the board in Kandahar and in Ottawa. The behaviour of the NDS, when it comes to how they react to certain pressures placed upon them by tribal elders or people of influence throughout Kandahar, has been common knowledge among senior officials, civilian and military.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Do I also hear you saying in your evidence that, contrary to what some people who've spoken out recently have said, you believe that in fact there was an alternative and there is an alternative to transferring to NDS?
4:20 p.m.
Political Director (2008-2009), Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I think it's never too late to investigate those possibilities. As I said in my earlier testimony, in hindsight I wish we would have pursued those other two tracks a little bit more vociferously, the ISAF facility and potentially another Afghan agency, such as the ANA.
