Evidence of meeting #26 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was regulations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:35 p.m.
Micro Meat Processor, Carl's Choice Meats
Yes, I did. The difference isn't because one buys federal or provincial. The difference really comes in with the fact that small butcher shops such as ours--and from what I hear, the one belonging to the gentleman beside me as well--do curing, smoking, and cooking. Once you get into those three areas, you are now to be regulated. The grocery store doesn't do any of those; they just buy it and sell it, so their criteria are different.
We want to do the cooking, curing, and smoking. That becomes a high-risk thing, as OMAFRA sees it, and so we need a licence for it; we need to be controlled.
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
I'm sharing my time with Mr. Easter, so I have just one more question.
Mr. Easton, you said an inspector came in and inspected your premises and everything was fine. Where did that inspector come from, from what department?
1:35 p.m.
Butcher, Empire Meat Company
It was the local health board. That would be the municipality or the county.
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Finally, would each of you please share a copy of your submission with the clerk so that we can each have a copy?
Finally—I'm sorry, another question—you went to your MPP, and only one of you answered: did either of you, Mr. Easton or Mr. Norg, go to your MPP and get your statement or complaint to the minister in Toronto? And what was the response?
1:40 p.m.
Micro Meat Processor, Carl's Choice Meats
I went to our local MPP, and we have put together a petition and a letter-writing campaign that is going to Leona Dombrowski, the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs. That has been on the go now for about two months, and we have very good support from our MPP, Dave Levac
1:40 p.m.
Butcher, Empire Meat Company
I have letters back from the minister. I've sent many letters to her, and my customers.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Thanks to all for forthright and direct presentations. I think it just goes to show that we've got a system in this country that doesn't have much common sense in it. It just doesn't.
And I think Alex is right. If you're down from 420 abattoirs to 175 at the provincial level--they are providing local jobs, local markets, and local food supply, and we're losing them--it's bureaucracy out of control, in my view. The difficulty for us is that this is mainly provincial, but I think, Mr. Chair, we have to do something. We don't want to involve ourselves in provincial affairs necessarily, but we have to do something here to try to get a message through to the provincial minister to have a look at this. We all know how bureaucracies work in this system, and they try to push the chain a little too far.
Anyway, I have a couple of questions.
Louis, you mentioned the pork situation. You said in your remarks that it has to be addressed before Parliament closes, that the program that is in place doesn't work for producers. I know the minister, this week—I think it was this week, or it might have been last—basically rejected the $30-per-hog request by the Canada Pork Council, and I maintain that the hog industry won't survive if they don't get an ad hoc payment. What were you thinking of?
1:40 p.m.
Owner, Roesch Meats and More
Yesterday I was going to drive up, but I ended up getting heavily delayed because a couple of farmers right beside us, two cousins who work together and had 850 sows, were starting to euthanize after this statement was made. They cannot survive.
We feel in Ontario that least 50% are due to go bankrupt in the next three weeks. The truth is that since that statement was made, the banks have had enough, Farm Credit has had enough, and feed suppliers are not going to extend any more credit. Stuff is starting to have to go out on a cash basis.
We all know what happened with the auto industry, and that's a major problem too, but the reality is that, you know, you shut the doors, you turn the lights off, and we get this thing all ironed out. The auto industry is going to start back up again, but you cannot do this with the hog industry or any other livestock sector, for that matter. When those doors get shut, you have a major problem, because you can't feed them, so you're going to jail one way or the other. If you walk away from the operation, somebody's going to run you down because you didn't look after your financial obligations, or you're going to have the Humane Society on you because you're not looking after the animals. But if you've got no funds and no way of looking after it, nothing to do with it, it's all out of your hands, it's a major problem.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Your time is up, Wayne.
Thank you, Mr. Roesch.
Mr. Lemieux, five minutes.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you again for being here.
I have a comment on the ad hoc payment.
One of the challenges the federal government faces is that if it does something like an ad hoc payment, a per head payment, it's trade-actionable. This is detrimental to the country; it's detrimental to the agricultural sector. Other countries would absolutely take trade action against Canada. We're in the process right now of taking trade action against other countries, like the U.S., for things they have done. So as for any kind of per head payment, the minister's been clear that we just cannot do it.
Sometimes provinces can get away with it because it's not national, it's provincial. When other countries look, they say, “Oh, it's a province.” Is it worth their time and effort to take on a province as another country?
And Mr. Easter knows this, so he's playing both ends of the middle—
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
—when he says, “Well, listen, I'm calling on the federal minister to do this.” I mean, Mr. Easter, when the Liberals were in government.... He knows what the federal government can and cannot do and what is trade-actionable and what is not. He's just posturing himself right now
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Yes, it is. The Liberals put out over $2 billion to the beef industry, which saved the beef industry, and it was ad hoc.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
There are other things this government can do, and is doing. I would, for example, like to point out, particularly for the hog sector, that we are challenging the United States on COOL. It's trade-actionable through WTO. We have launched this process to reopen the markets in the United States for the pork sector.
Minister Ritz has made 11 trips internationally to open foreign markets. Actually, he was supposed to travel again, but the opposition wouldn't travel with him. He wanted to go to an international conference to open markets, but he can't travel right now--we're in a minority government--unless an opposition member travels with him. Mr. Easter refused to travel with him, so the minister can't go.
So the minister is doing everything possible to open international markets. He's being obstructed to some degree by the opposition. The point I'm trying to make, I think, is that we're doing what we can do, and what Mr. Easter is suggesting is trade-actionable.
1:45 p.m.
Owner, Roesch Meats and More
What are you suggesting that these guys do? This is right now. This is not a light switch. Something has to happen.
If you look at what has happened in the last four to five months, at the number of hogs going into the States right now, the trade action doesn't amount to anything. My wife told me today that the Erb truck was at our door this morning, and she asked the trucker how things were going. He said, “We are so busy going empty into the U.S. and hauling back products that I know are dumping prices.” There's something really wrong with this system.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
You're asking about what we're doing, and I'm telling you. As a government, we're launching a trade action against the United States to let them and the international community know that what they've done is unacceptable. As an agriculture committee, just three days ago we were down in the United States meeting with their legislators, telling them about the impact this is having, and that this is trade-actionable, and that we are taking trade action. So we are putting as much pressure as possible to reopen the U.S. market. That will help our hog producers.
And we don't just want the U.S. market open again; we want the international market open again. That's where Minister Ritz has been travelling. Every time he's travelled, he's been travelling during a week when Parliament has not been sitting, therefore, he has not had to travel with an opposition member. This one time he has asked an opposition member to travel with him to an extremely important international trade meeting--
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
--and the opposition has refused to do so.