Agriculture Committee on Feb. 26th, 2015

[Kimberly Stokdijk]

I can speak to the opportunities to communicate with urban dwellers, as you say, and with young people within our country.

The Agriculture in the Classroom program is a wonderful opportunity. If you have an opportunity to support that organization, I would highly encourage you to do so. That group is also a collaboration from across the country by various organizations. Some provinces send a government representative. Others send representatives from their federations and so on.

That group is organizing and creating materials that can be used within the classroom. As a matter of fact, the upcoming week is Canadian Agriculture Literacy Week across the country. Farmers will be going into classrooms with the same book across the entire country to talk about what it's like to be a farmer. They will leave resources in the classrooms for teachers to use with their students, all aligned with the curriculum within each province. Agriculture in the Classroom is a wonderful opportunity to support that initiative.

[Kerry Froese]

There's something we're doing as individual farmers. Mr. Shipley mentioned Andrew Campbell, who started the hashtag #farm365 for Twitter, which has just taken off. He's sharing a picture of his farm every day of the year so he can get the message out to people about what he does on his farm, uncovering what's behind the farm door. We're not hiding anything.

I totally agree with you on the urban disconnect. In British Columbia, the BC Chicken Growers' Association has a Poultry in Motion educational trailer. It's a trailer that we take out to fairs. It was at the PNE, Pacific National Exhibition, the last couple of years, and we take it to schools.

It's basically a trailer that looks like a barn. The sides flip up and then you have the inside of a real chicken barn. We can't bring people to our barns because of biosecurity and we don't want to have the disease risks, so we bring the barn to them. The disconnect is so bad that last year at the PNE, I was manning this trailer and a woman my age came up to me and said, “You know, I know beef comes from cows and pork comes from pigs, but where does chicken come from?” I was so blown away that I said, “That's why I'm here”. This is bad. Commodities are doing a great job of trying to promote that message to consumers about where their food comes from. I know that the British Columbia Dairy Foundation also has the dairy classroom, in which they actually show young urbanites, or just urbanites in general, how they milk a cow, because they've never seen it done. They even try to give them a chance to do it. That's one way we get the message out.

To the other side of your question about what the barriers are, I know that in British Columbia we were having some issues with our domestic producers using rail transport to get grain to us. On Vancouver Island, I think they were within three days of being out of grain stocks for their poultry, so that was a serious issue for them. That's being alleviated now, but it's basically being done through transporting by trucks, which raises the cost to our producers. That's another barrier with regard to our competitiveness with other countries.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Were you putting in a plug for rail on Vancouver Island? I'm just asking. I've been working on that for a while.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

We'll now go to Mr. Keddy to wrap up this part.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

I'm not trying to be the devil's advocate here, but I can't help myself. With all due respect to Mr. Lunney, I really think you folks were terribly polite in not taking him up on the 100-mile diet. Agriculture in Canada depends upon exports. Farms are getting larger—we know that—and all the great things that happen in small agriculture are fantastic, and good for them and for the little farmer markets that are around. But you folks can't survive with a 100-mile diet, and the country can't, and we can't close our borders either interprovincially or nationally. If we want strawberries in December, they're going to come from Mexico. We just can't do it, so I'd like you to revisit that.

With full respect to what's going on locally and in many of the smaller operations, and the fact that they go to the farmers markets on the weekend and they're buying locally, good for them, but there is that whole other aspect of agriculture.

You're still being polite.

[Kimberly Stokdijk]

I think it's important to note that we have some very distinct regional differences across the country. You have groups in B.C. that love the 100-mile diet, and they have farms around them that can supply that. In the west with our grains, it's just not going to work. Quebec and Ontario can definitely work with some of that, but they want to be big enough and supply internationally and export. That's occurring across the country. The Atlantic region is very unique. One of the biggest pushes in the Atlantic region right now, which is building my business and the businesses like mine in the horticulture sector, is local movement.

I think it's important to remember that there is variety across the country. A lot of regional aspects need to be considered, from funding to research, to the fact that we need to export and we need to have large farms, and we need to have medium-sized farms, to the fact that the needs of those different farmers are very unique.

I think it's important to note that my peers have a desire to export. They may have a desire to meet the needs of the 100-mile diet. Others are going to be working on smaller farms. We're all farmers, small and large, and we all support the economy. One in eight jobs in the country is related to agriculture and agrifood.

So to your point, definitely we want farms to be large enough to be profitable. We also want to support the regional opportunities that exist. In the Atlantic area, regional and local aspects are very helpful to us in our economy.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

That's a great answer.

You need to keep her.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

My final comment is to say thank you to all of you for coming in today and sharing your experiences as young farmers with our agriculture committee and to also thank you for the job you're doing. Take it seriously, because in that whole disconnect that James was talking about between urban and rural, the importance of educating the public on safe food and science, science-based farming, is absolutely essential to your future. Thanks for what you do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you, Mr. Keddy.

One of the things about being chair of the committee is that usually I don't get to ask many questions, so I'm going to take the chairman's privilege, if that's okay. I have two or three quick questions.

Kerry, in your opening, you talked about the ability to share the experience. I have to think that this has to be one of the strongest things that can happen in the involvement, the building up, and the encouragement to one another as farmers. Do you do that in any sort of formal way, where you will take it regionally and sit down with different organizations, and not all grain farmers and not all chicken farmers? If you do, how do you build that confidence and trust among each other so that you're not just sharing the general stuff? A group that I know started out and have it right down to where they actually share all the fine details of their operations, because they've built this incredible trust among each other. They share the good things and the bad. Is there any part of the program that does this?

Succession planning I think is likely one of the most critical aspects in terms of the industry itself. How do we move that generational asset from one to the next? It hasn't changed in 40 or 50 years; the numbers have. They're the same issues. Mr. Dreeshen talked about land values, and he's absolutely right. With regard to that, do you set up a sort of professional direction and seminars around that to invite not just your own but to reach out through the commodity organizations and other farm organizations for them to come in? What I'm finding when I talk to some of the succession planners is that it's a huge issue, and if you don't start your succession planning until you are 50 or 60 years old—and many don't—it becomes a huge financial quandary.

The last question I would ask is in terms of agriculture and the opening of markets. I think that in Canada we've recognized this in terms of our growth and our strength in many things, but I'm going to talk about agriculture, because I believe that agriculture is the foundation on which every free trade agreement is built; I really do. That said, do you have some thoughts about it? One of the things is open markets. I think that we as a government also have an obligation to help access those markets. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about what we might do to help improve that and to help you as the coming-on farmers who are our next generation. Some of you may be in this position of making regulations or legislation some day, but you could help us in terms of some of your thoughts in getting better access. I know there's the transportation issue out west. I guess I'm trying to work around taking up all the time on that one.

I'll leave those quick three questions out there, and anyone can jump in, please.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

You took a lot of time, Chair.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Not as much as you did, actually.

Go ahead, Guenette.

[Guenette Bautz]

I think I can speak to the succession planning and how we are addressing that concern. As I mentioned previously, at every national conference and at the provincial level there is a lot of discussion and there are a lot of professionals coming in to encourage succession planning. We have some great companies out there, such as FCC, Farm Credit Corporation, that are offering the service to support farms in their transition phase. Our role is to encourage young farmers and get them to understand the process and the need and to support them in the process so they can talk to each other about how their families are dealing with it.

It takes great amounts of funding to deliver succession planning in as in depth a way as we would like to; however, we do support it, and we deliver it as best we can at the provincial and the national levels.

You've said that this problem has been around for several years, and I think the reason we are making ground is that, as I said, we're working with our young farmers, and we're also preparing for our families. We're starting to address it earlier instead of waiting until our dads are 60 to talk about it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Does anybody else want to jump in?

[Kerry Froese]

On your first question about how we deal with things from the different commodities and how to gain that trust, I think just coming to our conference and networking with each other and learning that we all have this strong passion for agriculture, that's where we gain the trust to share that information with each other. While it may not be very specific, as it's generalized to farms, it's easier to do that sharing of information when you're from the same commodity. You can be more specific with your targets of whatever you're growing or producing. As part of our national event, we do round tables where we discuss all these issues as young farmers.

On your last question, about the issue of opening markets and such, that would vary per commodity. I'm a poultry producer, which is also a supply-managed commodity. Without having the supply-managed industry in Canada, we probably wouldn't exist as poultry producers. The United States is so large; there are farms in there that are bigger than all of Canada's. Having that assurance of a fair cost of production model that provides me with a fair return is something that I as a young farmer do see definite benefit investing in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Larry, you may have something in terms of the free market part.

[Larry Spratt]

I'll first answer your two questions and kind of tie them together.

For succession planning, you mentioned meeting as a group, as individuals, and provincially we did. We had one where there was succession planning. We actually had an adviser whose job was to facilitate between the two generations, and we were able to talk about differences. For instance, my dad basically was able to just give me the farm; there were no questions. But for a friend of mine, he and his dad would fight over it. His dad literally threw a hammer at him one time. They were fighting so much they went for two weeks through harvest without talking to each other. But through this group, he was able to call me and ask how I was able to work with my dad. Communication is the big thing.

In terms of the open market, you mentioned transportation. It's just the accessibility. Right now where we grow, in northern Saskatchewan, we had an opportunity with Quaker Oats, for example, in the U.S. They wanted to buy as much oats as we could produce in our area, but we just couldn't get the product to them. They went somewhere else and we missed out on almost a dollar more a bushel for us as producers. On our farm that would have been an extra $200,000, which would have helped out. But it just was not there for us. We couldn't get the product to them and we missed out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Yes. Some of us met with some of the oat folks the other day.

I've eaten up my time now, colleagues. Rather than go down into the third round, I'll start back at the one that gives Mr. Eyking a chance to have another five minutes.

Madam Raynault, you have the first five minutes, but Mr. Eyking is in behind you.

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If I may, I'd like to say that I disagree with what my colleague Malcolm Allen said about making older farmers retire. I disagree because there is a bit of a contradiction here.

The land is part of who we are. When I travel from Ottawa to Joliette and see producers working in their fields, I'd like to be in their shoes. So I don't agree with Mr. Allen.

That said, Mr. Lacoste, you mentioned earlier that people don't know where food comes from, and that's true. I spent some of my youth in Montreal. Our neighbours didn't know where food came from. They visited a farm and were surprised to see eggs there. They saw chickens laying eggs. Food obviously has to come from somewhere. People should be informed about what they eat and about the source of their food. Steak doesn't magically appear at the grocery store.

Here's what I would like to know. How do you see the rural community in 10 or 20 years? Let's hope that it won't be too crowded by cities. Each of you can answer this question. You have only five minutes, which isn't very much time.

How do you see that community over the next 10 or 20 years?

[Pierre-Luc Lacoste]

That depends on where farms are.

I am located about 30 minutes away from Montreal. Since the city is growing and the pressure from property taxes is huge, I am not sure whether I will still be able to be a farmer in 20 or 30 years. There is also a lot of land speculation. People buy land and farms for purely speculative purposes. That is a huge issue for the next generation of farmers, and it really creates a barrier for those who want to go into agriculture.

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

Yes, indeed.

I live in Joliette, but I occasionally go to Repentigny. You can see where all the farms used to be. Toda they have been replaced by houses. There is less and less space for us to grow our vegetables and fruits during the summer. We are eating food that comes from elsewhere.

Would anyone else like to speak to that? How is that situation perceived by the rural community?

[Danielle Lee]

I think nowadays when you look at a rural area, many of the rural people still do not have that farm connection. Our idea of what a rural area used to be is that they had some connection to a farm, whether they were involved in the agriculture industry or something along those lines. I think now when we look at our rural areas many of those people aren't connected to farming and they don't know where their food comes from.

Even when we look at our own agriculture industry, our farms have become a lot more specific in what we produce. There's even opportunity within the agriculture industry to educate one another. That's what CYFF, the Canadian Young Farmers' Forum, does. We're able to learn from one another and what we do on our farms to be able to represent the agriculture industry as a whole. As farmers, yes, we do need to educate people. It's not just our urban people; it's our neighbours in our rural areas. You might be on a farm and you might have a neighbour next door who isn't farming anymore and they don't know what's happening.

For instance, where our farm is located, we probably have 20 neighbours around us, and one is a farmer. There's a huge opportunity to educate those people and work with them, too. They like seeing our cows in the field, but they don't want any...you know, when you spread your manure or something like that. You have to work with them and I think educate them, even if they are in a rural area.

[Francine Raynault, NDP, Joliette, QC]

In 2013, I went on an agricultural tour of my riding.

That helped me see that farmers no longer operate in the way our grandparents did, but it's still a very interesting field. One of the concerns farmers have is whether their children or grandchildren will be able to take over. That's a major concern for them.

Would anyone else like to comment and tell us what they think the rural community will be like in 10 or 20 years' time?

[Larry Spratt]

I'll make a comment here.

In terms of the board, I'm probably from the smallest town here. There's a trend in our area that people are going back to what it was like in the 1920s and 1930s. Everybody has a cow, or a couple of cows, and some chickens. I think it's more about uncertainty. Is it worth everything to...because who knows what can happen? For instance, where Kerry is in B.C., with bird flu or something like that, people are more concerned.

We were talking about the 100-mile diet. In our area there's a kind of cohesion with neighbours. We have the cattle and the other guy has pigs. We buy a pig from him and stuff like that. It's almost like a trend for when everybody back in the day used to have some chickens and a pig. You might not literally have them on your farm, but you might be teaming up with somebody else.

But I'm from a small town, and that's what I see it as. It's different for Danielle, who's outside Calgary, or in other areas like that.