Evidence of meeting #9 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was innovation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Lehoux. Unfortunately, your speaking time is up.
We will hear from Mr. Kody Blois for six minutes.
Go ahead, Mr. Blois.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to start my questions with Ms. Ouellet, just in order for me to have a better understanding. There's no doubt that she did a great job in talking about the need to increase local capacity in smaller abattoirs. Where is her particular organization? Is it a provincial organization? Is this a movement that she was doing in her local community to build an abattoir? I've read in La Presse about some of the work that she's done around the Granby area. Can she explain a little more about the role and what exactly she's involved in?
4:45 p.m.
Coordinator, Le petit abattoir
Yes, and if you are okay with it, I will answer in French. I think it will be clearer for everyone.
We've noticed this need in our community because that's where we are. However, it really applies to all of Quebec. I've also started talking to other communities elsewhere in Canada, and, honestly, they're facing the same problems from sea to sea.
We really have to start looking for network-related solutions rather than just think of small individual solutions here and there. If we had a strategy for dealing with the issue head on and solving the problem of the lack of small infrastructure across the country, we could establish abattoir capacity objectives—based on number of head—and say we're going to respond by building a given number of new abattoirs at various places across country.
If we did it this way, we'd be able to negotiate better prices for equipment and infrastructure, ensure the community's benefit…
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
I'm sorry to interrupt, Madam Ouellet. I have only so much time and I want to ask more quick questions of you.
In terms of when you were building the small abattoir in the Granby area, how did you make it come to fruition? I know that there was about $300,000, I think, between the Government of Canada and the Government of Quebec to help as seed funding. Was there a co-operative model with many different producers?
For example, in Nova Scotia, we have FarmWorks, which is an organization that helps to bring together a lot of different smaller-capital groups to help build these types of projects. Is there something similar in Quebec, whether it's being run in the community or by government?
4:45 p.m.
Coordinator, Le petit abattoir
If it was put in place by local governments, it should nevertheless be managed by the community. That's where you can more easily find the labour that decides to invest in their abattoir and infrastructure, since you're providing them with the local organization and a kind of agriculture they want.
If it's done only by the communities, that's something else. In other words, for example, you can't ask regional county municipality to manage an infrastructure facility, but you can ask a community.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
You mentioned aggregation. One of the things I hear from my small producers is that they'll get to a certain level, but then there's the ability to aggregate to get to those economies of scale to be competitive. How is that playing out?
I understand that the investment has actually happened in Granby and that you guys have moved forward. Are you selling meat products to retailers, or are you simply doing the processing and sending them back to primary producers?
4:45 p.m.
Coordinator, Le petit abattoir
The key to success is that you definitely do not take part in marketing. You have to let people do their own marketing, which promotes the distinctive features of their products.
I would add that we'll never be big enough to maintain stock and operate in markets involving major distributors that can easily trigger price wars that we will lose. It's pointless to venture into those areas.
Being just a service provider is enough to increase abattoir capacity in the regions, and that ensures that the project will continue.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
I'd like to turn the rest of my questions to Protein Industries and you, Mr. Greuel. I've lost you on my screen. Sorry about that.
We've talked about interprovincial trade barriers. Mr. Charlebois mentioned the importance of the superclusters and the investment the government has made to try to promote innovation and bring foreign direct capital here. Can you speak to some of the work and to how you've seen those superclusters—or your supercluster in particular—lead to some of that foreign direct capital or some of the innovation that leads to increased processing here in Canada?
December 1st, 2020 / 4:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Protein Industries Canada
It's early days still. We're about two and a half years into our mandate, so I can't claim that we're responsible for foreign direct investment. What we're really trying to do is create an environment to attract organizations, companies and multinationals to invest. Helping to de-risk science and innovation investments, ensuring a clear path to market by regulatory modernization and working to understand markets and market access are all areas that are creating the conditions around investments.
What we're seeing is that investments that Protein Industries Canada has made have incented collaborative R and D, bringing new knowledge and new technologies to Canada, and I think that will lead to opportunities for additional foreign direct investment in the future.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Mr. Chair, is that the end of my time, or do I have just a second?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
If you keep talking, that's it.
Thank you, Mr. Blois. That's all the time you have.
Mr. Perron, you have the floor for six minutes.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thanks to the witnesses for being with us.
Mr. Greuel, I'd just like to remind you to hold your microphone firmly if you want to speak later. The interpreter had trouble following you at the end of your speech.
Ms. Ouellet, I'm very pleased to see you again. You talked about vision. That's ultimately what I wanted you to bring to the committee: a different vision. You're proposing something that complements our big abattoirs, something that can be more easily spread across the country. By increasing the number of small abattoirs, we will increase capacity. I just stated your first principle.
Your second principle is non-repayable assistance. How much is required to launch a program like yours? I know your project concerns chickens, but can we consider doing this for grain-fed veal, beef, pork and so on? Can you tell us more about that?
4:50 p.m.
Coordinator, Le petit abattoir
It's definitely possible to do it for red meat because Europe and the United States are doing it with mobile slaughtering and slaughtering in micro abattoirs. It's entirely practicable and possible. It seems exotic as we talk about it here, but we're lagging behind what's going on elsewhere.
With regard to regulations, it's high time we started thinking about models such as these and viewing them as complementing the big abattoirs, which, I repeat, are necessary. We need to find, not our place within the big infrastructure facilities, but our own solutions on our own scale. The same is absolutely true for red meat.
As for repayable assistance, we currently need $500,000 to launch a project such as ours. If we launched 20 projects like it, we could generate economies of scale, and it would cost much less per project.
As regards inspection, if authorization were granted for the facility itself rather than each carcass, we would save even more, and we could more quickly find solutions across the country without putting too much pressure on the resources already deployed by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, the CFIA.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
You mentioned regulations elsewhere, the fact that Canada is lagging behind and the fact that we're supporting Europe and the United States.
What's different about regulations in other countries? Is it the fact that they certify facilities?
4:50 p.m.
Coordinator, Le petit abattoir
That's indeed the case in France. Instead of certifying each carcass, inspectors inspect practices as a whole and facilities and then issue certification. Then each operator is responsible for complying with its certification.
That's precisely what's happening in certain facilities in the United States, where operators are allowed to do business instead of reserve their production for personal consumption or, in some instances, farm sales. They're even entitled to sell their products directly to restaurants. That happens on a small scale, and authorities trust in operators' intelligence and determination not to kill their clientele, which is usually very bad for business.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
That's a good point.
Let's talk about traceability. Do you slaughter your own animals? How does that work? You talked about labour and said you didn't have any problems in that regard. However, we've talked to stakeholders everywhere, and everyone says there's a significant labour shortage in the industry.
What's your opinion on that?
4:55 p.m.
Coordinator, Le petit abattoir
We haven't started up yet. So we can't say whether we have a labour problem or not.
However, we expect a labour problem will arise, and we have strategies to solve it. For example, we could let farmers slaughter their own animals and be paid for it. In that way, they would be taking part in the entire producer work process. Many of our members have already expressed a real desire to do so.
We have several other strategies to include people in our labour force. For example, we're starting up a slaughter training program on the Brome-Missisquoi campus, which is in the neighbouring RCM and offers butchery training. Students could come and take their course on the job in our abattoir, which would guarantee us new employees with every class.
So there are ways of cooperating, such as this one, that can vastly facilitate the solution to any labour problems we encounter.
I'd like to add that, in other abattoirs, in France, for example, the farmers do the slaughtering work themselves.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
I see.
As regards regulations, you have federal certification that allows you to sell anywhere.
4:55 p.m.
Coordinator, Le petit abattoir
We don't have that yet because we have to build the facilities.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
So it's possible for small facilities to acquire federal certification, which eliminates interprovincial borders. Several stakeholders have discussed this problem—trade barriers—that they're facing. You won't have that problem, will you?