Evidence of meeting #3 for Bill C-39 in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Chan  Vice President, Strategic Policy and Supply Chains, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Detchou  Senior Director, Natural Resources, Environment and Sustainability, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Darby  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Doran  President, International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada
Tim Perry  President, ALPA Canada, Air Line Pilots Association, International
Gamble  Chief Executive Officer, Association of Consulting Engineering Companies – Canada
Chartrand  Canadian General Vice-President, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers
Bruske  President, Canadian Labour Congress
Hancock  National President, Canadian Union of Public Employees

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Good morning, everybody. It's nice to see you all again.

I'd like to call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number three of the House of Commons Legislative Committee on Bill C-39.

The committee is meeting today pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, October 8, 2026. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

I would like to take a few moments for the benefit of the witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before you speak. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic. Please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. I'd like to remind witnesses that committee members may ask questions in either French or English. If you need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece. Select the listening channel you need in advance in order to take full advantage of the time allotted for questions and answers. All comments should be addressed through the chair.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can. We appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

I would like to welcome our witnesses for today's first panel.

From the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, we have Pascal Chan, vice-president, strategic policy and supply chains, and Bryan Detchou, senior director, natural resources, environment and sustainability.

From Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters, we have Dennis Darby, president and chief executive officer, and Matt Conley, director of government relations.

On Zoom, from International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada, we have Mr. Tom Doran, president.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here this morning. For each group, you will get up to five minutes to do your presentation. Once all three of you have presented, we will open the floor to questions.

We will start with Mr. Chan.

Pascal Chan Vice President, Strategic Policy and Supply Chains, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Pascal Chan. I'm the vice-president of strategic policy and supply chains at the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, which is Canada's largest and most activated business network, representing 400 chambers of commerce and boards of trade and more than 200,000 businesses of all sizes from all sectors of the economy and from every part of the country.

I'm pleased to be joined today by my colleague Bryan Detchou, our senior director of natural resources, environment and sustainability, with whom I'll be splitting my time.

I'd like to start by thanking the committee members for undertaking this study and inviting us to appear as witnesses. The building Canada strong act comes at a time when our nation must focus on economic growth, productivity, and its competitiveness in the global economy.

The government has made it clear that it wants to double non-U.S. exports by 2035 and make Canada the fastest-growing economy in the G7. With two-thirds of Canada's GDP dependent on international trade, having reliable supply chains is paramount. The string of work stoppages in recent years affecting key parts of our transportation infrastructure could unfortunately make it impossible to achieve our objectives.

Bill C-39 aims to address this issue. While it contains measures that, it is to be hoped, will improve collective bargaining outcomes, such as geographic certification or the introduction of a special mediator, other changes are likely to work against its intended objectives. Most notably, changes to section 107 of the Canada Labour Code would limit the minister's ability to intervene in a labour disruption until after the damage has been done, despite having access to the new special mediator's report that will include an assessment of the parties' participation, as well as the likelihood that they will reach an agreement, along with a national interest assessment that would measure the expected severity of a shutdown.

The special mediator's report and national interest assessment should enable the minister to make an informed decision on the need to intervene in rare and exceptional circumstances. Adjusting the proposed text of the bill to remove the requirement for a strike or lockout to already be under way would offer flexibility, allowing the minister to make important decisions at their discretion in the interest of protecting Canadian businesses and workers.

I will now turn it over to my colleague Bryan.

Bryan Detchou Senior Director, Natural Resources, Environment and Sustainability, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Thank you, Pascal.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to focus on part 1 of the bill. It is entitled “Build Canada Now”. As a key component of Bill C-39, it forms part of what could be Canada's most consequential economic legislation in decades. Its implications will shape the country's economic trajectory for generations to come, making it essential that we get it right.

Our message is straightforward. Part 1, as proposed, advances the government's objective of accelerating major project infrastructure and resource projects by shortening review timelines, consolidating federal approvals and enabling concurrent permitting. This will help attract investment and build the infrastructure Canada needs. We urge the committee to pass the bill without amendments that would weaken its purpose.

Some will argue that moving faster means cutting corners.

That is not true. We can move projects forward more quickly, while respecting indigenous rights and protecting the environment. Part 1 does not lower the standards. It simply eliminates unnecessary overlap and delays, to ensure that the standards are applied within a clearer and more predictable approval framework.

With this framework in place, certainty of implementation is now as important as the legislation itself. Three things will determine whether these changes deliver results.

The one-year timeline must produce real end-to-end savings rather than shifting delays to the preapplication stage.

Responsibilities must be clearly defined, particularly between the CER and the new Crown consultation hub, with extensions remaining exceptional and publicly reported.

Also, federal timelines must be matched by provincial and territorial alignment and sufficient regulatory capacity to meet them.

In an increasingly turbulent world, Parliament must focus on what it can control: the rules and the timelines that determine whether critical projects get built. Get it right, and Canada strengthens its economic independence. Get it wrong, and we risk falling further behind and surrendering greater control over our future to global powers.

Our ask is simple: Pass part 1 of this bill without amendments that would weaken its purpose. Now, we need to turn attention into projects, investment and growth, and to deliver.

Thank you. We look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, gentlemen.

I'll move over to Mr. Darby.

Dennis Darby President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is Dennis Darby. I'm the president and CEO of CME, the national voice of about 1.85 million workers, for about $210 billion in real GDP every year, and the sector that has built this country's prosperity.

For many years, manufacturers have watched Canada fall behind its peers in terms of capital investment in plants, technology and automation, which has been called a productivity crisis by no less than the deputy governor of the Bank of Canada. Over the last decades, we've seen projects stalled; private investment, large infrastructure and processing projects leaving; and timelines stretched.

The fragility of our industrial sector, which we represent, was acutely demonstrated with the imposition of unjustified tariffs by the U.S., shining a light on our dependence but also on our lack of domestic capacity to capitalize on our store of resources from transportation to processing.

We want to be very clear. We are cautiously optimistic about Bill C-39. The government is proposing to do what we've been advocating for over decades, which is to build faster with greater certainty. It's a necessary effort to improve our competitiveness. We've called for faster, more predictable and more coordinated project approvals for years. As federal project assessment and permitting regimes have become more complex in the last decade, we have to act.

The government has faced mounting criticism of duplication and a lack of coordination across federal entities. Following the lead of the Building Canada Act, Bill C-39 proposes to consolidate federal decision-making by reducing the number of departments and agencies involved in decisions and establishing a mechanism for consolidating those decisions into a single document. The proposed one-year timeline for key federal decisions is particularly important, because investment decisions depend not only on regulatory standards, but also on certainty, predictability and speed. Our understanding is that Bill C-39 would cut many of the IAAC's evaluation timelines in half to achieve that 365-day target from end to end. This is a substantial improvement, and manufacturers support it.

Provisions supporting electricity transmission, nuclear development and energy infrastructure are critical for industrial growth and expansion. Access to reliable, affordable energy is critical for manufacturing. Very little new industrial capacity to mine, process or manufacture can happen without that reliable source of energy.

The bill recognizes that infrastructure, energy systems, transportation corridors and industrial supply chains are essential.

The digital trade provisions are important for modernization to help reduce administrative burdens and improve efficiency. Many manufacturers are managing complex cross-border supply chains. If you can reduce friction, it will help.

However, our optimism is somewhat measured, and I'll tell you why.

We have seen good legislation underperform before. Manufacturers remember it. The success of this legislation will depend on its implementation. Timelines written into the legislation will matter only if federal departments and regulators have the staffing, the resources, the coordination mechanisms and the decision-making discipline required to meet them. It's not a small ask. Multiple federal entities do not suddenly start coordinating because a bill passes. This is not to mention the coordination that will be needed at the provincial level. Manufacturers will be looking to ensure the accelerated timelines translate into real-world reductions in approval delays with no additional procedural complexity.

Our biggest concerns are what we call the completeness question when it comes to major project reviews and how government defines when a project is considered complete. There is a risk that significant amounts of work could be pushed earlier into the process, resulting in a shorter form of review but not necessarily a shorter timeline. For example, if the one-year clock starts only after years of front-end preparation, we're not that much further ahead.

Bill C-39 proposes to expand the scope of the Building Canada Act to enable the designation of regions of national interest. Our understanding is that this would include transportation and energy corridors, telecommunications networks and industrial regions. This is exactly the kind of strategic thinking we think we need to grow our economy, especially in the current environment. However, we want to see a credible and detailed plan on how this will actually deliver.

There is one more thing the committee should hear from us on this, and we want to say it clearly. Nobody wants to be tied up in court because of the actions of this bill. Litigation does not build pipelines or move goods. It delays everything for everyone, and getting the information will be important.

Of course, we support meaningful indigenous consultation and partnership, but continued uncertainty or duplication in the consultation process could still undermine project timelines and investor confidence.

We know indigenous consultation is guaranteed under the law. In the same way, the ability of the government to intervene to protect Canada's national interest on work stoppage also needs to be looked at very carefully, with a minimum amount of possibility that, in fact, we inadvertently end up delaying projects for reasons we don't need.

Get the consultation right. Get the labour framework right. Please don't give reasons for organizations to go to the courts, because that would be a terrible outcome.

This is a positive and important shift toward a more execution-focused industrial policy framework. We are very much encouraged by the government's recognition that Canada must build faster to compete. We're ready to help, and we look forward to moving this ahead.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Mr. Darby.

Mr. Doran, it's over to you for five minutes.

Tom Doran President, International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada

Thank you.

My name is Tom Doran. I'm the president of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada. We represent thousands of longshore workers on Canada's west coast.

I'm here to talk about the people who work on the docks, keep this economy moving and will be affected by this bill. ILWU members keep Canada's economy moving and growing by loading and unloading ships and handling cargo at our ports 24 hours a day, year-round, in all conditions. Our skilled work keeps goods flowing in and out of this country. Our members may be among the first affected by these new restrictions on our right to bargain freely and fairly, and the consequences will reach far beyond the waterfront.

These changes to the Labour Code confirm a clear path for government intervention. They give employers a reason to hold out and a road map for getting the government to end a strike. Why? It's because they have received a clear signal from government that it will step in when things get difficult and stop workers from exercising their right to strike. This weakens the incentive for employers to negotiate better wages or protect jobs from AI, automation and outsourcing.

Automation is changing the waterfront. How it is introduced has to be negotiated between workers and employers, not imposed upon us. We have families that have worked on our docks for generations, and bargaining is how we protect the work that will be left for future generations. When the government steps in, employers get to automate on their own terms and questions about the future of work on our waterfront and across the economy are left unresolved. The impact starts long before a strike. Once employers know the government will intervene, they will have no reason to bargain, and workers will lose the only leverage they have to protect their jobs.

Ottawa has an obligation to protect free and fair collective bargaining and not tip the scales in the favour of the corporate elite in this country. Our message to Parliament is clear. This bill effectively dismantles our members' constitutionally protected right to strike.

Ports matter to the economy because of the people who keep them moving. The importance of our work cannot justify stripping away our rights. Lasting labour peace comes from fair, negotiated agreements.

I respectfully ask this committee, and Parliament as a whole, to repeal section 107, remove the new strike restrictions and let collective bargaining work for workers.

I also want to address clause 307 of this bill, which would allow two or more employers or the minister to ask the CIRB to impose geographic certification on our individual bargaining units. Workers could be forced into a bargaining structure they did not choose. All of our longshore locals and ILWU Local 514 have loudly rejected being forced into such a structure. It undermines our charter right to freedom of association.

If members of this committee are looking for more predictability, you will not find it here. Imposing a structure on a strained relationship freezes the dysfunction in place and will almost certainly produce longer and more bitter disputes. Workers and their unions value our existing voluntary bargaining structure. There is no evidence that a forced geographic certification on the west coast will improve bargaining outcomes.

We urge this committee to examine this legislation carefully and critically, because the consequences are serious. This government said it wants to build the economy with workers and put them at the centre of it. We agree with that goal. We are asking you to hold this bill to that standard. Canadians heard those commitments, and they expect you to keep them.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you very much, Mr. Doran.

We'll start the six-minute round with Mr. Seeback.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Tom, it's good to see you again.

Yesterday, we had the opportunity to hear from the minister, who made some statements that, quite frankly, don't match with the interpretation of the changes to both section 107 and the geographic certification, so I want to put some of the things the minister said yesterday to you and get your thoughts on them.

The minister said she thought the changes to section 107 put “guardrails” on it. Do you believe she's actually putting guardrails on the use of section 107?

October 20th, 2026 / 10:15 a.m.

President, International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada

Tom Doran

Respectfully, we don't see it that way. We see it creating a clear path forward for ending labour disputes and giving the minister the sole power to direct the CIRB to end a strike.

We see these changes as undermining the effectiveness of collective bargaining and undermining our ability to get a fair deal at the table.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Tom, I put this question to the minister yesterday, and I also found her response to this to be quite disappointing. I suggested that if the special mediator did a report that finds the employer was bargaining in bad faith, the use of section 107 would clearly be off the table to end a strike. She absolutely would not confirm that this is the case.

With these changes, an employer could be bargaining in bad faith, or not bargaining, and the minister could still use section 107 to end a strike. What do you think about that?

10:15 a.m.

President, International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada

Tom Doran

It's unfortunate. I don't think the minister should have the ability to direct the board to end a strike.

The question of bargaining in bad faith gets resolved only well after a dispute or a work stoppage may arise. Ultimately, I think it's a finding of fact, particularly when there are monetary penalties involved. I don't think the special mediator's report is a finding of fact. It's a subjective finding. I don't believe the “bargaining in bad faith” question can be resolved by the minister either, so I don't think these provisions, as stated, will necessarily prevent the parties from bargaining in bad faith if, in fact, that is found to be the case.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

One other thing I also put to the minister was the change in the language of section 107, which I also find deeply troubling. The old section 107 says, “The Minister, where the Minister deems it expedient, may do such things”. The new section 107 would say, “The Minister may take any measure that, in the Minister’s opinion, is likely to maintain or secure industrial peace”. To me, “may take any measure” is a massive expansion of the minister's powers, as opposed to “where the Minister deems it expedient”.

Have you contemplated that change as well? I think it's a shocking expansion of the minister's discretionary power.

10:20 a.m.

President, International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada

Tom Doran

We have looked at those changes to section 107. That's why we say this language is wildly permissive and allows the minister to end a labour dispute in practically any circumstance. That's why we are calling for the repeal of section 107.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

[Technical difficulty—Editor] things that I put to the minister was.... She said the goal of this bill was to support workers and employers to get to a collective agreement. I know you probably don't think that's what this bill does.

I asked the minister a number of things. Would it make sense if the special mediator had some special powers other than a report? For example, the special mediator could set days and times the parties are required to meet and bargain. Could the special mediator have the power to bring anyone to the mediation who would be useful in resolving the dispute?

Do you think making some changes like that and giving the special mediator some additional powers would be helpful?

10:20 a.m.

President, International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada

Tom Doran

We clearly identified a deficiency in what the government has proposed with respect to the special mediator. We've also identified that there are no new powers, other than working with the parties at a certain point, making some recommendations and producing a report.

We had called before and during consultations for certain powers to be given to a special mediator if one were to be introduced through legislation. Those powers would include the power to compel, to bring people together at the table, the people who need to be at the table to get to a deal. That's critically important for the effectiveness of collective bargaining.

We are greatly disappointed that the government didn't take up the opportunity to really make this special mediator role effective for the parties to get a deal before we have to start producing reports and releasing them to the public.

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Mr. Seeback.

Dr. Martin, I'll go over to you.

Danielle Martin Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Thank you to all the witnesses for being with us today. I have a question for each of you, and I'll start with Mr. Chan. I want to talk about trade diversification and small and medium-sized enterprises, or SMEs.

We all know that we're up against a very serious economic threat in this country and that part of our response has to be to diversify our trade to other partners, aside from the U.S., and to build better interprovincial trade corridors across the country.

Despite all the work being done by the Prime Minister and by first ministers across the country to sign trade deals, the signing of a trade deal is not what strengthens the economy. It is the actual shipping of Canadian goods to those partners that will allow our businesses to thrive and to keep our workers employed. I think we need to figure out how we're going to get those goods to market in short order.

We have been talking a lot at this committee about the major projects that this bill enables, but there is a lot of work in the area of small and medium-sized enterprises that we need to be thinking about. I'm wondering if our colleagues from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce could talk to us specifically about small and medium-sized businesses in this country and how you think this bill might affect them.

10:25 a.m.

Vice President, Strategic Policy and Supply Chains, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Pascal Chan

Certainly, and I'll let my colleague Bryan talk about some of the major project implications.

On the labour piece, this is one of the things that we hear about most frequently from our network of chambers. As I said, there are 400 chambers of commerce and boards of trade across the country that feed into our membership, and the small businesses are participants there. The labour disruptions, especially when we look towards exports, are a huge piece for them.

As well, our business data lab has looked at obstacles facing businesses through Statistics Canada's Canadian survey on business conditions. It noted that, last year, exporters were typically the most optimistic of businesses, but that had completely been eroded. As well, for 90% of businesses that had been experiencing supply chain obstacles, we're expecting them to either stay the same or get worse over the coming three months, which is a notable concern for the network and for businesses across the country, including SMEs.

Bryan, I don't know if you wanted to add anything on the major projects piece.

10:25 a.m.

Senior Director, Natural Resources, Environment and Sustainability, Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Bryan Detchou

On the major project side, I would say that one thing that can be noted in Bill C-39 and perhaps build on what was in Bill C-5 is removing the sunset clause, which then makes it possible for all different types of projects to benefit from the streamlined approvals that are currently in this legislation.

The Canadian Chamber of Commerce was very much on the record and supportive of Bill C-5, but we certainly wanted its scope widened. We're seeing that with Bill C-39, which we are very pleased with.

Danielle Martin Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Detchou.

I'd like to turn to Mr. Doran and the ILWU.

Thank you for your testimony.

My understanding is that in the Ready report, which looked at the strike at the west coast ports, there was a finding that in 2023, a lot—or perhaps even most—of the actual conversation between the parties took place after the strike already had started. I think this is part of what the role of the special mediator in this bill is trying to address: to put pressure on earlier so that we don't end up with a lockout or a strike before the parties even start to talk.

Could you say a little about your perspective on the special mediator role?

10:25 a.m.

President, International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada

Tom Doran

Thank you for your question.

As I indicated earlier, we feel that the special mediator role as it appears in this bill is not really what we had been asking for in the industrial inquiry. In fact, we asked for greater powers to be given to conciliation officers to do such things as compelling appearance and helping the parties get to the core issues in bargaining.

It's unfortunate that during the strike the parties had very little time at the table, even though the union had requested time at the bargaining table after the dispute had begun. There was nothing there that compelled the parties to be at the table, even during a strike.

Danielle Martin Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

If I may follow up on that, do you not see any additional leverage or benefit to the fact that the report would need to be made public? It seems to me that, if a party were engaged in the kind of behaviour they're talking about—in which the union is asking the employer to come to the table and the employer is refusing—but with the knowledge that there is a special mediator report that will put some sunshine on that, it might be of use. Do you agree with that?

10:25 a.m.

President, International Longshore and Warehouse Union Canada

Tom Doran

I don't see the report's being made public as really changing that dynamic at the bargaining table. It's a kind of “after action”. Some employers may not be too concerned about whether they have been considered to be bargaining in bad faith if their goal is to truncate the collective bargaining process and end up with government intervention. We believe that's what employers will gravitate towards with this bill.

Danielle Martin Liberal University—Rosedale, ON

I think that's my time. Thank you very much.