Evidence of meeting #20 for Canada-China Relations in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
You said there was an investigation, but you have no idea of the results of the investigation and you weren't involved in that.
6:55 p.m.
President, Public Health Agency of Canada
The RCMP investigation is not a matter that we're directly involved in. We're happy to support them in any way.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Wouldn't they report back to you? These people were just investigated, and that was it. They're no longer there.
How did they leave?
7 p.m.
President, Public Health Agency of Canada
The two scientists are no longer employed by the Public Health Agency of Canada.
7 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
We understand that, but people leave in various ways. Some people retire; some resign; some get another job. They were under investigation, and they left. You're saying you have no idea why they left, or how they left, or what the results of the investigations were.
7 p.m.
President, Public Health Agency of Canada
No, actually, I did not say that we had no idea why they left. I said they no longer work at the Public Health Agency. We can't disclose additional information on this matter.
7 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Let's see what you can disclose about something else.
You talked about GPHIN, a very well-regarded agency that has operated inside of the Public Health Agency for a very long time. It was recognized worldwide as having a global alert system that was well respected and needed, and in fact looked to around the world for alerts on things like the COVID-19 situation happening.
You said that you got information from them on December 31 that there was something going on in Wuhan. Is that correct?
7 p.m.
President, Public Health Agency of Canada
At 10:30 p.m. on December 30, GPHIN gave us an indication that there was something of interest in Wuhan.
7 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
You followed up on that, I presume. You were glad that they were able to give you that information and, presumably, you got further reports from them. Is that correct?
7 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
We have a very thorough investigative report published by The Globe and Mail in July of last year, outlining a whole series of problems after that among the people who were involved in that alert system, providing information that was not getting to the right place.
Can you tell us about that?
7 p.m.
President, Public Health Agency of Canada
I can, sir. Thank you for the question.
First of all, GPHIN is a platform. It's a technology for gathering open-source information. Second, it's a group of experts who interpret and provide...broadcast notifications out. They do a daily report, and they do an alert report. The daily report was what came out the next day, indicating there had been an indication of interest in Wuhan.
7 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
These daily reports that were being filed internally.... It's reported that they began to face push-back from within the department. They were told to focus their efforts on official statements, such as data from the Chinese government and WHO. They were told that other sources of information were just rumours. They just wanted the reports restricted to only official information.
Can you confirm that?
7 p.m.
President, Public Health Agency of Canada
I haven't seen any guidance that they should focus their attention on information sourced from the Government of China and the WHO.
7 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
There was no official written guidance. When someone says they were told that, you're saying there was no official guidance.
They were also criticized at one point, a few weeks after the outbreak. The public health director was asked why GPHIN's internal reports had missed crucial developments being widely reported in the news around the world, that human-to-human transmission had been detected. The response was, from the analysts, that the information had, in fact, been discussed in earlier reports, before the documents went up the chain, but somehow the information was taken out of that.
Can you tell us about that?
7 p.m.
President, Public Health Agency of Canada
In my introductory remarks, I mentioned that a special report was issued at 9:00 a.m. on January 1. The special report included that there was this event of interest occurring in Wuhan, and Dr. Tam used that the following day to talk to the Council of Chief Medical Officers of Health.
7 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
I understand that there were some issues, but at the same time, the information they were aware of regarding human-to-human transmission never made it up the chain. In fact, this was something that was not known by these senior people.
7 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan
Mr. Harris, thank you very much. Sorry for interrupting, but your six minutes have concluded.
We'll now go to the second round. We'll begin with Mr. Genuis for five minutes.
Go ahead, Mr. Genuis, please.
March 22nd, 2021 / 7 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Stewart, has there ever been a case where any government lab has fired scientists as a result of security breaches or the improper transfer of viruses?
7:05 p.m.
President, Public Health Agency of Canada
That's a very difficult question to answer.
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Well, I'm glad you have a bloody senior office in this country where you're supposed to account to parliamentarians and the Canadian people. Now answer the damn question.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan
I just want to ask members to conduct themselves, of course, in a parliamentary fashion.
