Evidence of meeting #20 for Canada-China Relations in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Iain Stewart  President, Public Health Agency of Canada
Guillaume Poliquin  Acting Vice-President, National Microbiology Laboratory, Public Health Agency of Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Marie-France Lafleur
Janis Sarts  Director, NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence
Christopher Parsons  Senior Research Associate, The Citizen Lab, Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy, University of Toronto, As an Individual

March 22nd, 2021 / 6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 20 of the Special Committee on Canada-China Relations. Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, September 23, 2020, the committee is meeting on its study of Canada-China relations.

This meeting is in hybrid format, pursuant to the motion adopted by the House on January 25, 2021.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses for our first panel.

From the Public Health Agency of Canada, we have Mr. Iain Stewart, president, as well as Dr. Guillaume Poliquin, acting scientific director general, National Microbiology Laboratory.

Thank you so much for being here tonight. I will now turn the floor over to Mr. Stewart for the opening remarks.

Please proceed. You have five minutes.

6:35 p.m.

Iain Stewart President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks for the invitation to the discuss the Public Health Agency of Canada's relationship with China. A key focus of PHAC’s current relationship is of course in the context of the response to COVID-19.

In the case of COVID-19, the Public Health Agency became aware on December 30 at 10:30 p.m. that something was happening in Wuhan, via GPHIN, the global public health intelligence network that we run. For us, it was a big thing. This detection of an outbreak of pneumonia in Wuhan was distributed in our daily report the next morning, December 31, and supplementary monitoring started right away.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Pardon me, Mr. Stewart. I'm very sorry to interrupt you, but are you able to turn your camera on or is there a problem? We can't see you. I don't know if you know that.

6:35 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

No, I didn't know that.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Please proceed.

6:35 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

Okay. Thanks, and thanks for the tip. I'm sorry about that, members.

Mr. Chair, as I was saying, we detected something in Wuhan on December 30 in the late evening. The next day, we sent out through the daily notification that in fact an infection event was occurring in Wuhan. The next day, Dr. Tam notified the Council of Chief Medical Officers of Health and we alerted the federal/provincial Public Health Network Communications Group and the Canadian Public Health Laboratory Network. For us, it started abruptly at the end of December and the very beginning of January.

With the world in the midst of the unprecedented global event that this resulted in, learning more about the zoonotic source of the virus has become crucial to better understand the situation and to help prevent future pandemics. That's why in May 2020 Canada co-sponsored the World Health Assembly resolution 73.1, which called for an “impartial, independent and comprehensive” review of the WHO-coordinated international health response to COVID-19 and scientific and collaborative field research missions, which laid the groundwork for the joint WHO-China mission on the origins of the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

In January 2021, a team of WHO-convened international experts travelled to China to work with Chinese counterparts to advance these efforts. Their reports are expected in the coming weeks. Canada has committed to supporting the WHO and its scientific work, and Canadian officials have reiterated the need for China to be open and transparent as part of this process.

Canada and China share a long-standing relationship in health, dating back to an MOU signed in 1995 calling for regular dialogue on health-related issues. The Canada-China policy dialogue on health has been the main vehicle for our formal bilateral engagement, including, at the ministerial level, four dialogues between 2009 and 2014. Since 2014, engagement with China has primarily been in health-related multilateral fora, such as the WHO and the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation health working group.

China has a growing capacity for basic and applied research, and there's a mutual benefit from academic exchanges. Reflecting on this, in January 2007, Canada and China signed a science and technology co-operation agreement. The agreement launched a sustained effort to boost collaborative research and development in fields like life sciences to promote collaboration in research and development between Chinese and Canadian academics and both private and public sector researchers and innovators. The initial areas of focus in life sciences included vaccines.

As with all collaborations, care is required to make sure that both parties have a clear understanding of the uses of the information being exchanged and, of course, the intellectual property that underlies the research teams. In our work, we've taken important steps to protect against security threats and intellectual property concerns. The Minister of Health, the Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development, and the Minister of Public Safety jointly issued a policy statement on research security and COVID-19 in September 2020, encouraging members of the research community to take precautions to protect the security of COVID-19-related research, intellectual property and knowledge development.

Challenges persist in any relationship, but there are benefits in exchanging information and research, and there are meaningful opportunities to do so through the relationships that I've just described. The global pandemic underscores the importance of international engagement and coordination, and international coordination will remain important to managing the pandemic going forward.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to make remarks.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Thank you very much, Mr. Stewart.

We'll now go to the first round of questions. We'll start with Mr. Chong.

You have six minutes, Mr. Chong.

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Stewart, for appearing in front of us.

In July 2019, one of the researchers at the lab in Winnipeg and her husband had their security clearances revoked and were escorted out of the lab. Can you tell us why?

6:35 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

That matter was the subject of an investigation. It was a security investigation. I'm not going to be able to talk about the details of that investigation.

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Did you co-operate with the RCMP investigation?

6:35 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

Do I co-operate with the RCMP investigation...?

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

No, did you and the employees of the lab co-operate with the RCMP investigation?

6:35 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

There is an RCMP investigation under way at this time. If the RCMP need anything from us, they will have our co-operation, for sure.

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

A CBC report indicated that staff members at the lab, who spoke on background to CBC, have indicated that senior management had not made them accessible to police or allowed staff to contact the RCMP with relevant information. Are you aware of that CBC report?

6:40 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

I'm not aware of that CBC report. However, I would say that if the RCMP wants anything from us, we will of course support them in that investigation.

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Are you indicating to employees that they're free to contact the RCMP with any relevant information they might have?

6:40 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

I'm surprised that this is an issue. The RCMP has been doing an extensive investigation, and we will of course support them in any way required.

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Okay. I'll take that as a yes—that employees of the lab are free to contact the RCMP with any relevant information they might have, because the RCMP has indicated they're interested in any information that people might have. I note that these scientists were just terminated from their employment at the lab six weeks ago or five weeks ago.

Can you tell us what happened, exactly, with the shipment that took place from the lab in March 2019 to China? This is not a personnel matter. This concerns a shipment of live Ebola and henipavirus to Beijing, on an Air Canada flight on March 31, 2019, which raised concerns.

6:40 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

In what sense?

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

In what sense? There was a CBC News report, dated August 2019, that said the shipment of these live viruses to China “raises questions” and that the shipment may not have been done according to “the lab's operating procedures”.

6:40 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Is that news story correct?

6:40 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

All that we do, we do in conformity with the Human Pathogens and Toxins Act, the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act and the Canadian biosafety standards. I don't think I'm able to comment on that specific allegation. I just know that from a policy level at this time, those are the policies we're guided by, sir.

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

The shipment that took place on March 31, then, was done in accordance with the requirements under the Human Pathogens and Toxins Act and in accordance with the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act, the Canadian biosafety standard, and the lab's own standard operating procedures. Is that correct?

In other words, what you're telling this committee is that there was nothing concerning about the shipment of those viruses, those live viruses, to China in March 2019, and everything was done properly, according to law, according to regulation, and according to standard operating procedure. Is that correct?

6:40 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

What I said was that those are what we're guided by.

If you'll allow me, I'll turn to my colleague. He runs the lab and was around at the time you're referring to.