Canada-China Relations Committee on March 22nd, 2021

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I would like to ask the witness—

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I do appreciate that the member is entitled to ask the question. I just ask him to be parliamentary and try to remain calm. I understand.

Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Stewart, this is a critical issue of national security. Has any lab in this country ever fired a scientist as a result of a security breach or the improper transfer of viruses? You're a public servant. People deserve an answer.

[Iain Stewart]

I am not able to answer the question as it was structured.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Were there cases of people being fired for policy breaches?

[Iain Stewart]

In fact, you're asking a question that gets back at the two individuals of concern, and I have indicated—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

No, I'm not, sir. I'm asking a general question. Have there been cases of individuals fired as a result of policy breaches at any lab in Canada?

[Iain Stewart]

I'm only aware of the labs for which I have been responsible, and I can't answer the question as it's currently structured.

Thank you, sir.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

If someone had been fired for a policy breach, what would be meant by the term “policy breach”?

[Iain Stewart]

A policy breach, I don't know. It would be an administrative policy perhaps. It would be a safety policy perhaps. It would be a security policy perhaps. There could be different constructions.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is such an utter disgrace, but I think I have to move on.

Does Canada fund or permit—

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—so-called gain-of-function experiments?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

On a point of order, go ahead, Mr. Fragiskatos.

Let's stop the time.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I raised a point of order earlier, but you spoke about how we conduct ourselves as parliamentarians.

The member, our colleague, is free to ask questions as he wishes, but it's a bit unbecoming when the witness here continues to be badgered like this. Let the questions be asked, of course, but there's a way.... There's a decorum between colleagues that needs to be maintained. I would just advise my colleague of that. We need to be professional here.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, on the same point of order—

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Genuis, go ahead on the same point of order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I would submit that this is not a point of order. I would submit that pointing out something as a disgrace is perfectly legitimate and that if Mr. Fragiskatos wishes to interrupt the line of questioning in order to offer some cover to a senior public official refusing to answer important public security questions, that's on him. I'm happy for the public to observe his approach to this hearing and mine, and judge accordingly.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair, very quickly.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

It's not a matter of order, Mr. Fragiskatos.

Can I proceed with my questions, Mr. Chair?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

I think we lost the chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Garnett Genuis]

Okay, in that case, I'll assume the chair as vice-chair and continue with my round of questions.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

In that case, I have to raise a point of order.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Garnett Genuis]

You're out of order, Mr. Fragiskatos.

Does Canada fund or permit so-called gain-of-function experiments—

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

You can't do that. I have a point of order.