Evidence of meeting #22 for Canada-China Relations in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Trevor Cadieu  Director of Staff, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
Shelly Bruce  Chief, Communications Security Establishment
Jody Thomas  Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Daniel Costello  Assistant Deputy Minister, International Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Weldon Epp  Director General, North Asia and Oceania Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Scott Jones  Head, Canadian Centre for Cyber Security, Communications Security Establishment
Scott Bishop  Commander of the Canadian Forces Intelligence Command and Chief of Defence Intelligence, Department of National Defence
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Marie-France Lafleur

9:20 p.m.

Liberal

Emmanuel Dubourg Liberal Bourassa, QC

Yes.

With pleasure, Mr. Harris.

I'm not talking about the kinds of communications or emails that you could send to the clerk or the analysts asking specific questions on procedure or things like that. Like I said, in my official languages committee, we had an article. It was only in English, and that article was so important that we said that we should take part of that article—it was on a website—to put in the report. It's important that those kinds of documents that we're going to use, that we're going to refer to in the report, should be in both languages. It has allowed all members to know exactly what's going on.

At that time, what we did was send that article to the translation bureau to get a French version, so that we could give it to anyone so they would be able to understand what was going on.

9:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Mr. Genuis.

9:20 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Dubourg, are you talking about footnoting, then? Maybe I misunderstood, but I got the impression that you're saying we shouldn't footnote an article that's in only one language. You're not saying that. You're only saying that if you're directly quoting from an article or if you're including it in evidence.... Okay. All right.

9:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Thank you.

Monsieur Paul-Hus.

9:20 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think my question has just been answered. Referring to a complete document is too much. We should instead be referring to a passage from a document. For example, if I need to have one page from a book translated, I won't have the entire book translated. We need to be clearer, because everyone is asking questions. You mention a document, but that's too broad. It would be preferable to refer to a passage from a document that will be used in a report.

9:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Mr. Bergeron, the floor is yours.

9:20 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The motion that our colleague is introducing seems very clear to me. It talks about a reference document.

To take Mr. Paul-Hus' example, if he really likes the book he has in his hands and wants to give us one page of it for discussion purposes, to help us in focusing our discussions, I agree with him that we're not going to distribute the entire book. However, if he distributes one page and it's in French, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that it should be translated into English for our colleagues. If that page is in English, it seems reasonable to me that it be translated into French for our colleagues. This is exactly the same practice we use in translating documents from witnesses before they are distributed.

We are talking about reference documents. As I understand it, that does not mean any old document, like an email or an informal exchange. It means a document that we refer to, one that influences our thinking and our work. It seems very clear to me. If you want a reference document to be distributed, it cannot be distributed in one language only. It must be distributed in both official languages. For example, we make sure that a substantive article in Le Devoir, for example, is translated into English before it is circulated to francophone and anglophone members alike. Likewise, we make sure that a substantive article in The Globe and Mail is translated into French before it is circulated to anglophone and francophone members alike.

That seems very clear to me and follows the normal practices of our committees. There was perhaps a small oversight in our routine motions. They actually only address documents distributed or submitted by witnesses. Our thinking is not shaped only by the documents submitted by witnesses. It is also shaped by certain other documents [Technical difficulty—Editor], such as the absolutely tremendous briefing notes that the Library of Parliament prepares for us. Those notes are not circulated in English only or in French only. They are circulated in both languages, because the documents are important for the reflection that eventually must lead us to a decision.

In my opinion, it is self-evident that these reference documents can be circulated to the members of the committee only if they appear in both of the country's official languages.

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Before I go to Mr. Genuis, I'll note the time, which of course in St. John's is 10:57.

9:25 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

It's time to go.

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Mr. Genuis.

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think we should be able to wrap up here quickly.

I think we all now understand and agree with the intention of Mr. Dubourg's motion. I would just like to amend the motion to read as follows: “That any reference document that members share with the clerk of the committee or with the analysts, for it to be entered into evidence as part of a study, be distributed to all members of the committee, in both official languages.”

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Madam Clerk, do you have that? Okay.

Thank you very much, Mr. Genuis.

Is anyone opposed to that amendment?

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I agree completely with Mr. Bergeron, but the rule that documents be translated into both languages before they are given to members is already in effect, I believe.

Could you clarify that?

9:25 p.m.

The Clerk

From my understanding of committee work, I think it's more related to reports, recommendations or a work plan. If a member submits a document to me that helps me organize either recommendations or a work plan, it would be distributed in both official languages.

Mr. Bergeron is perfectly correct when he says that the housekeeping motion deals only with documents from witnesses. So we need to specify that all documents that the committee uses should be in both official languages.

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Thank you.

Mr. Williamson, the floor is yours.

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

I agree with Mr. Bergeron.

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Are there any objections to the amendment that would limit this motion to the evidence in reports, as I understand it?

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Chair, I can read the amendment again.

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

It's a motion to amend. Normally, you would add such-and-such words in such-and-such a place. Here you've read the whole motion, which is helpful.

9:30 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

After the word “analysts”, it adds in the words “for it to be entered into evidence as part of a study”. It removes the words “in order to facilitate the committee's work”.

9:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Thank you very much.

Are there any objections to amending the motion?

Mr. Bergeron.

9:30 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC

I see no objection to that, Mr. Chair. However, this amendment seems to move slightly away from Mr. Dubourg's intent. I don't believe that he wanted to limit us to reference documents used in preparing a report.

If Mr. Dubourg tells me that the proposed amendment seems acceptable to him, I will not be going to the barricades to defend my motion as it stands. However, if the amendment does not seem acceptable to him, I will stand by his side in opposition.

9:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Thank you very much.

I guess what I'm looking for is whether or not we're going to have to [Technical difficulty—Editor]. We can certainly go to a vote, and that would be quick.

Mr. Harris, I'll go to you first, and then we'll go to a vote. I'm not clear here.

9:30 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

I would like to agree with Mr. Bergeron that it makes it a different motion. If Mr. Dubourg is happy with that, I'll go along with it. As the clerk pointed out, there are working documents that may need to be circulated as well.

9:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan

Mr. Dubourg, the floor is yours.