Canada-China Relations Committee on June 14th, 2021

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We know that Mr. Gilmour expressed concerns about sending the Ebola and Nipah viruses to the Wuhan laboratory.

I understand that you can't answer on Mr. Gilmour's behalf, but this question is really about you.

What was the response of the Public Health Agency of Canada, the PHAC, when Mr. Gilmour expressed concerns about sending the virus? Surely he received a response.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Dr. Poliquin, would you like to speak about this?

[Dr. Guillaume Poliquin]

Thank you, Minister.

It is important to note that the fact that Dr. Gilmour raised questions about the transfer is a normal part of our transfer process. It is one of the important responsibilities of the laboratory managers, to note those questions.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's fine. What was the PHAC's response?

[Dr. Guillaume Poliquin]

A lot of work was done to prepare and obtain the right documents to support the transfer, as you see in the rest of the documents.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So it would have no connection with Dr. Gilmour's subsequent departure.

[Dr. Guillaume Poliquin]

I can't speak to Dr. Gilmour's motivations.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So no one at the PHAC and the laboratory knows about it. Even the Minister of Health is unaware of why Dr. Gilmour left. That is the answer I'm getting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Now we'll go to Mr. Harris for two minutes and thirty seconds, please.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd just like to follow up on the question regarding the collaboration with the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Dr. Poliquin, you suggested that there is no existing collaboration with the Wuhan laboratory, and The Globe and Mail reports that PHAC informed them in May that collaboration on new projects had ceased. Since 2019, there have been no new projects.

Is it a matter of policy, Minister, that the Government of Canada and PHAC will not collaborate with the Wuhan Institute of Virology? Is that a matter of policy?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Again, the lab pursues research endeavours based on the research interests and categories of its determination, so it's best for Dr. Poliquin to speak about their research collaboration processes.

[Dr. Guillaume Poliquin]

To be clear, as we are asked to potentially collaborate on research endeavours by participants from across the globe, we approach potential collaboration requests, or vice versa when we potentially initiate them from the lab, with a number of important questions to ensure that the potential of the collaboration outweighs any potential risk of the said collaboration and, if there are any risks identified, that they be mitigated appropriately.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Is it a matter of policy not to collaborate with the Wuhan Institute of Virology? Is it now the policy of the NML to do that?

[Dr. Guillaume Poliquin]

Any request for collaboration would be assessed on the basis of their merits and of the potential implications thereof.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

We were told that co-operation with the Wuhan Institute of Virology ended when Dr. Qui, Dr. Cheng and the students had their security access revoked on July 5, 2019. Are you saying there is no connection between those two events and the ceasing of collaboration with the Wuhan Institute of Virology?

[Dr. Guillaume Poliquin]

As I mentioned in response to a previous question, research collaborations are often driven by the primary investigator. As investigators move to additional opportunities, collaborations naturally will wind down.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I don't think you're answering the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

We will continue now with Mr. Paul-Hus for five minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, this is the Standing Committee on Canada-China Relations. So we are going to talk a bit about relations with CanSino Biologics. Were you informed that the Chinese army was working with CanSino Biologics?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I'm sorry, but that's not within my purview. I don't have that information.

Perhaps Iain Stewart or Dr. Poliquin can speak to this, but it's not something—

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Were relations with CanSino Biologics not part of your portfolio as Minister of Health? I know that it falls under the responsibility of the Department of Industry, but I imagine you knew it, as Minister of Health.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Actually, as the Minister of Health, I'm essentially the purchaser. I wasn't involved in the research arm of the vaccinology but certainly was interested in any and all viable vaccines as soon as possible, and I'm very grateful for the work of my colleagues in the vaccine task force who put us on such a good path of vaccination, with Canada now being the number one in the G20, number one in the G7 and number one in the OECD.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Right, I understand that you are proud.

Scott Halperin, who testified on March 11, said, and I quote: "Yes, I was informed that the vaccine was going to be for emergency use authorization prior to the end of the clinical trials we were planning by the Chinese military."

Consequently, as regards Health Canada and the authorizations that were given, it was well known that CanSino Biologics was connected with the Chinese army. Is that right?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Again, in the early days of COVID-19, the Government of Canada turned over every stone to look for a viable vaccine early on. We knew that Canadians would expect us to do so, and in fact, the candidates that were selected by the vaccine task force have proven to be very good ones, and we're very grateful for their work. In fact, we have four approved vaccines in the country and there is very promising news about Novavax, which is another one of our candidates.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Right. To conclude the question about CanSino Biologics, I would like to know whether you were shocked to learn that the Chinese had decided to keep the samples at the Beijing airport and not send them to Canada.