Canada-China Relations Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Minister, what do you think of establishing a foreign agent registry that would require former politicians and former bureaucrats to register if they're working for a designated foreign state or an entity controlled by a designated foreign state?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Chair, that would be something that the committee can study. I would welcome the input of the committee if you want to do a study on that.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, as a final quick question for my round here, do you believe China's rise is inevitable? The reason I ask is that there was a sense of inevitability in your opening remarks about the rise of China.

Could I have a very brief answer, please?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think we need to look at China with eyes wide open. What I stated in my opening statement is just facts, the numbers, the population and the economic numbers that come with China.

That's just a statement of facts. What we need to see is what liberal democracies are going to do now in the face of one of the biggest geopolitical issues of our time.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll go to Ms. Zann for five minutes, please.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much.

Minister, it's a pleasure to see you.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Likewise.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

You're doing a great job. Thank you so much.

On a personal level, thank you for helping get my constituents back home, including my 80-year-old parents from Spain. We really appreciated all the work your staff and your team did on that.

Thank you.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I will pass that compliment on to Deputy Minister Morgan. She has been instrumental with all our consular officials. I was just there to help, but I think all of us should be really proud. This was the largest repatriation in peacetime in Canada, but they did it. They did an amazing job.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

It was amazing. Mr. Oliphant was very helpful and I want to thank him as well.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Definitely. He probably got even more calls.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Minister, getting to the topic at hand, this year, 2020, marks 50 years since Canada and the People's Republic of China established official diplomatic relations.

How has Canada's relationship with China evolved since 1970, and what is your vision for a future bilateral relationship based on trust, mutual respect and a plan to work together with better cultural and diplomatic ties and exchanges and a clear plan to fight our mutual enemy, climate change, and create world peace? How do you propose we can get there?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would have a lot to say, Mr. Chair. I don't know how much time I have.

Certainly, I don't think you need to go back to the 1970s. As I was saying, and I think all members would recognize, the China of 2016 is not the China of 2020. The China of 2018 is not the China of 2020, because in between we have had, obviously, the arbitrary detention of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor and the arbitrary sentencing of Mr. Schellenberg. We have had the case of the Uighurs, which came to the forefront of the international community. We have also had, obviously, the imposition of the national security law in Hong Kong, which puts in question the “one country, two systems” policy and the freedom and liberties that have been enjoyed. There's been a lot happening.

I think the role of this committee, and certainly my role, is to also look at China in the short, medium and long term. I think when you're talking about international relations, you have to think certainly about the long term. This year marks 50 years, as you mentioned. It's a sober moment, because when you have two Canadians who have been arbitrarily detained for close to two years, the hearts and minds of Canadians are with them and their families, who have been struggling all that time.

At the same time, we need to think as well about how we're going to engage with a country like China. What I was trying to say at the beginning was that this challenge, to go back to Mr. Chong's question, is not unique to Canada. I must say that the question of how we're going to do that is a topic we discuss at every meeting we have with those who are like-minded.

You mentioned climate change. We mentioned a number of areas in which we're going to either challenge, coexist or co-operate, and that is really the work that we need to do now. Many have said that the best way to address this geopolitical issue of our time is to work with those who are like-minded. That's what you've seen Canada doing. You've seen that many of our statements have been with our allies in Europe, the United States, the U.K., Australia, or New Zealand, because one thing that Canadians at home need to really get is that this is not unique to Canada.

I've often said that Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor are not only two Canadians; they're two citizens of a liberal democracy. That's why this is not a bilateral issue but a multilateral issue. Are we going to stand up for freedom and liberty and defend human rights together? That's really what we're talking about, and that's why I quoted some numbers. Obviously these numbers tell a story, but we need to act together to see how we're going to be able, as liberal democracies, to face some of these issues together.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Minister.

I know that when we look at most goods these days, for the last 10 years or more, we've seen that pretty much everything is made in China. I have seen interviews with Chinese diplomats in which they have said to their American counterparts who are angry about this, “Listen, you taught us how to do it. You taught us how to take capitalism and spin it on its head and use it to our own benefit.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Ms. Zann. I'm sorry.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Can I just say a word, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

We're going to have to get you to hold that.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Say a word, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I'm sure there will be an opportunity. I think we can get this on track again here and keep within the times that are allocated.

Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, in your opening statement, you mentioned the government's announcement of new provisions aimed at simplifying the lives of those defending freedom in Hong Kong who may want to enter Canada. We had the opportunity to discuss the matter with the Minister of Immigration last week. I think we will probably have to go further than what has been announced at the moment, but it is already a positive step forward.

If a person takes part in a pro-democracy demonstration and is then, under the National Security Law, is accused of any kind of crime—sedition, for example—that should not be held against them even though there is an equivalent provision in Canadian criminal law. It should not be used as an argument to deny that person entry to Canada.

Did I understand correctly?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

That is my understanding too, Mr. Bergeron.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Let me take the issue further.

On the one hand, if a pro-democracy demonstrator is accused of sedition for participating in such an event, we cannot hold that charge against them to prevent them from entering Canada.

On the other hand, a democratically elected president whose only crime is to have organized a consultation on democracy in his country is accused of sedition and is refused entry to Canada.

Why do we hold that same charge against him?

How are we supposed to understand this double standard that we have adopted towards pro-democracy demonstrators in Hong Kong and the former Catalan president, Mr. Puigdemont?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I am sorry, Mr. Chair, but I did not understand the question. We only heard the first five seconds of Mr. Bergeron's comment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Bergeron, I will let you have some more time, so that you can start again. I hope things will work.