Canada-China Relations Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I will try to be brief, because I am being asked to be.

Why is there a double standard with the pro-democracy demonstrators in Hong Kong and President Puigdemont of Catalunya, although his only crime was to organize a consultation on democracy, for which he was accused of sedition?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You'll understand that it is not appropriate for me, as Minister of Foreign Affairs, to comment on individual cases when I am appearing before this committee.

In the case of Hong Kong, Mr. Bergeron, your understanding is correct. I feel that it also corresponds to our values and to the system we have established for welcoming refugees. The additional measures we have announced are welcome.

With Hong Kong, the situation is very clear. Canada certainly wants to be welcoming to young immigrants who want to come here. We took those measures in consultation with our partners in the Five Eyes group, and they correspond to those in the refugee system. As you already know, Mr. Bergeron, Canada's system of welcoming refugees to our territory is to be envied.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

No, none at all.

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.

Then we'll go on to the second hour, if that's all right, because we'll be at the one-hour point.

Now we'll go to Mr. Harris for two and a half minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, you mention that you're working with allies and partners, and I agree with that approach. Obviously, we can't do it alone because we're not influential or big enough to do that without repercussions.

I want to know this. We always hear the same names, you know: New Zealand, Australia, the Five Eyes. We had 11 countries that spoke out publicly about Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig. Where is the progress that we hope to see, and how are we going to be successful in convincing China that it's in its best interests to change its ways on human rights, on Hong Kong and on other issues that are extremely important to Canada and to our future?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you. That's a very important question, Mr. Chair.

I was really encouraged last October when 38 countries came together at the UN third committee to call out for the respect of human rights. This was a joint statement that was with respect to Hong Kong and Xinjiang, and I think that's the type of example of the international community coming together.

I share your sense, Mr. Harris, with respect to.... I have been trying since the first day in office to broaden the coalition, to work not only with the United Kingdom and the Five Eyes. We've tried, and we have succeeded on a number of occasions.

I think the number of G7 statements you've seen on human rights is probably a record during the time we've been there, but I'm always trying to see how we can have a broader coalition. Other countries.... I'm talking to the EU countries. I'm talking to some other countries in Asia-Pacific that can add their voices to the work that we're doing to defend human rights, and also speak up on the issues about Hong Kong, Xinjiang or Tibet, for example.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Speaking up, though.... I think everyone understands the expressions of concern that are being made throughout various forums, but how do we get past that to seeing actual change?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think with actions. Statements are good, but actions are even better.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Yes, that's exactly my point.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

That's why, when I met with the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, we talked about some measures that she could be taking. For example, when you talk about the alarming reports coming out of Xinjiang and that we called for an end to repression, the action that needs to be taken is, obviously, to go there and be able to assess it. That's what we're calling for. This is action.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

We're now about an hour and three minutes into the meeting, so I think we should go to the second-hour list.

I just want to check with Mr. Chong. I have Mr. Williamson leading off the second hour, but he....

Are you going to lead off, Mr. Chong?

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chong, you have six minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I'm sorry. I will reset the time here.

Mr. Oliphant, go ahead on a point of order.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'm wondering. We're halfway through the meeting. I don't want to miss anything, as I'm sure no one else does. I have to go to the bathroom and wouldn't mind if we could suspend for two or three minutes, not longer. I may not be the only older gentleman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

How about if we add five minutes to the end of the meeting and plan to end at around 8:40?

We can take that three- or four-minute break and people can use the washroom. Is that all right?

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

All right. Very good.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Let's do that. Thank you.

The meeting is suspended briefly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

This meeting will come back to order.

I should say that I hope Mr. Harris doesn't have my head for delaying our finish beyond 10 o'clock. I know that he's a good Newfoundlander and very hearty and can handle it.

I think we're going to Mr. Chong now, for six minutes.

Mr. Chong, go ahead, please.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, the government has implicitly acknowledged that its China policy isn't working. I think there is an implicit acknowledgement in that the government changed its rhetoric on China beginning in October of this autumn, and it has acknowledged it in its decision to come forward with a new framework on China. In that context, will there be a formal release of this new framework before December 21?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would disagree with the premise. I mean, every country...or let me say that our like-minded countries all have foreign policies that are evolving. The reason is that China is evolving. You just need to go a couple of months back, or a couple of years, and as I said, the China of 2020 is not the China of 2018. So the like-minded colleagues around the world, Mr. Chong, all think that you need an evolving policy when it comes to China, and you need to work with the international community.

That's exactly what we've been doing, and that's what we're going to continue to do.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Okay. Will this new framework be formally released?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Well, I have already explained on many occasions and I will continue to explain to Canadians at every opportunity the principles. I've outlined a number of them tonight, and I will continue to do so.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Are you indicating, Minister, that the framework has been completed and what you're telling us tonight is part of the new framework?