Evidence of meeting #45 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was change.
A video is available from Parliament.
Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada
It is the board's decision to determine the employment of the chief executive officer. That's correct.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Absolutely. Thank you.
Contrary to all the literature out there and all the research that has been done that would say to start with the leader, you've decided to say, “No, we are going to protect the leader. We are going to keep the leader and somehow magically still change culture.” Is that correct?
Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada
No, I'm sorry; respectfully, I disagree with that. We've not said that we are going to protect the CEO and somehow magically change the culture. We have been working very hard over the past two years to put systems in place. I mentioned the policies that were recently passed. Just last week a new discipline and complaints policy, our independent third-party mechanism, was adopted.
The board carefully evaluates and considers whether we have the appropriate people in place based on all the information. We have done that—
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Ms. Skinner, I'm down to time here.
Can you just outline for us, and for Canadians more importantly, what the three top qualities are that Scott presents that make him the most effective leader to bring Hockey Canada through this instrumental change? What are the three top qualities that make him the best leader for this?
Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada
That's a question I would have liked to have some thought on—
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Madam Chair, surely their board has discussed this.
What makes him the best leader?
Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada
What makes the CEO—and his management team—a good leader is first of all that he has an excellent team in place that is enabling us to make significant change. I appreciate that some may disagree or may not have that perspective, but I believe we are making significant change for the organization under that leadership.
We also need someone who is fully dedicated and aligned with the strategic plan, and Mr. Smith is.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Ms. Skinner. I don't believe you answered the question though.
We will now move to the Liberals, with Chris Bittle for five minutes.
October 4th, 2022 / 12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I have a question, out of curiosity. I'm a civil litigator by trade, and when I'm in court, I watch witnesses and watch what they're doing. You don't seem to be looking at the camera when you're answering the question.
Ms. Skinner, is someone typing answers to you or providing answers to you? I know we said counsel could assist, but is someone providing you with answers?
Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada
As the committee is aware, Mr. Winton is in the room with me, but I have papers spread out all around me. My practice is also litigation-based, so my style is to have papers spread literally all around the desk, and I did make some notes.
I had very little time to prepare for this hearing, so I made some notes. It's my words that are coming from my mouth, sir.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
That's fair enough.
Monsieur Brind'Amour, I'll ask you the same question.
Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual
Thank you for the question.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Mr. Brind'Amour, before you answer, I would like to point out that at the beginning, this committee made it very clear that you are appearing as an independent and therefore you should not have counsel giving you any answers at all. I hope you're keeping true to what you promised you would do.
Thank you, but please answer the question.
Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual
Okay, Madam Chair.
Like my colleague Ms. Skinner, I have papers around me and, like her, I have had little time to prepare.
I am checking my notes and that's all. I am not receiving messages, and I am delivering my testimony independently.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Thank you so much, Mr. Brind'Amour. I have a follow-up question for you.
I was kind of shocked. Mr. Nater and Mr. Housefather asked you a direct question multiple times. I was shocked, when I looked you up, to find that you're a litigator yourself.
I'm not going to ask the question again, but I would expect that as member of the Quebec bar and as a witness under subpoena.... Why do you think you don't need to answer a direct question from elected members of Parliament under oath?
You may have contempt for this proceeding, but is that really a sign of the leadership at Hockey Canada and the leadership you provided?
Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual
Mr. Bittle, thank you for the question.
I believe I have already answered that question. The way—
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Excuse me, Mr. Brind'Amour. You were asked a yes or no question. From your bio, you're a litigator of 40 years. I don't think you would accept a witness who claimed to answer a question that was yes or no. I don't know why you are applying a different standard to your testimony as a witness that you would never have accepted as a lawyer in a courtroom.
Lawyer and Former Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada, As an Individual
This forum is not at all like a court of law, and I am answering the questions I am asked in the way—
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Excuse me, Mr. Brind'Amour.
You're a witness under subpoena and under oath. I know there isn't a judge in front of you, but this is shocking. Again, it speaks to how Hockey Canada and its leadership view these proceedings and how it has taken part in past actions. It's truly troubling that you would dismiss them and dismiss us. We have the same powers as a court. We've brought you here under summons, and this is truly disappointing.
Ms. Skinner, in your opening statement, I was particularly shocked when you thought Hockey Canada was being scapegoated in these proceedings. It seems to dismiss some of the responsibility you have as a board, especially when you bring in suggestions of.... You said a politician was recently found to have engaged in sexual assault. That is true, but I believe that member was kicked out of the Conservative caucus. There were consequences for that. Mr. Nater is nodding in agreement. The Senate moved to have that member expelled from the Senate, and now there are charges laid against him.
Why are you using that as an example? There were consequences for this politician, whereas the players and leaders involved in what happened at Hockey Canada seem to have faced no consequences.
Can you help me square the circle in terms of...?
Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada
For sure. I gave that example of the politician as it was the first example that came to mind when I was asked a question. It was a response to a question, and it just happened to be what I read in the media recently.
It is Hockey Canada's hope and it's my hope that the players will be held accountable in this case, so that to the extent that there's culpable conduct, they will be held accountable for it. That's the investigation process that's ongoing that this committee has heard about.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Mr. Bittle, I think you have gone over five minutes, but I have been very lenient today. Thank you very much.
Now we're going to the third round.
For the Conservatives' five minutes, we have Mr. Martel.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Skinner, how will Hockey Canada be able to operate if it has no sponsors and no funding from the government?
If everyone keeps their job and Hockey Canada has no sponsors, how will it work? Many sponsors have dropped Hockey Canada.
Interim Chair of the Board of Directors, Hockey Canada
I believe the sponsors—and I have been meeting with many of them—are on pause as they have a bit of patience and are giving us a bit of time to put in place and follow through on our action plan, the governance review and the board elections, which will inevitably result in leadership change.
I'm very hopeful that the sponsors who have been good partners to Hockey Canada and, frankly, to all the boys and girls who are playing hockey, will continue to have patience while we continue to earn back the trust of Canadians and sponsors alike.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
If you keep the same people around the table, do you really think the confidence of the sponsors is going to come back, after all that has happened and all that we have heard?
Do you think the trust in Hockey Canada, which has really been shaken, can come back so easily?