It was July 26.
Evidence of meeting #65 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cmac.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #65 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cmac.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:20 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
It was a phone call.
11:20 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
It was from the minister's chief of staff.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
That would be Hursh Jaswal. Okay.
In that call, did he not provide you with the name of Laith Marouf?
11:20 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Madam Chair, I don't remember for sure. I don't want to mislead the committee. I don't recall. He described that there was an issue. He said that we needed to look into it. I don't believe—
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
What was the next thing that happened? Did the department not begin looking into it until further information was received from the minister's office on August 2?
11:20 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Madam Chair, yes, on August 2, I received an email with one of the offensive tweets. That was when we started to look into it.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
You didn't receive an email with an offensive tweet until August 2. Did nobody in the department go to look for the offensive tweet between July 25 and August 2?
11:20 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Madam Chair, that's right.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Okay. That is disappointing.
Let me ask you, once you had seen this offensive tweet.... I think this is what most Canadians want to know. It's what I want to know. I would have looked at that offensive tweet and said, “You must cancel the contract immediately.” Why did it take such a period, from August 2 to August 19, to suspend the contract?
11:20 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Madam Chair, I understand the question. What I can say is that I agree that it could have been shorter. I think that, as a result of this experience, we have made changes through the system—
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
To allow the minister to terminate it immediately, I understand.
But the breach in that contract was so egregious that I imagine termination for default could have occurred regardless. I would have loved to see CMAC come back and sue the government for a terminated contract after these tweets came out.
What was the delay in the process? Where was the delay? Did legal advice take a long time to come back? What was the delay?
11:20 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Madam Chair, the time that it took was really to obtain the facts and review—
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
What were the facts? You go to the Twitter account. You see Mr. Marouf on his Twitter account and what he said. You see that they had two conferences, in Halifax and Vancouver, I believe. Mr. Marouf was a speaker at both of these conferences. I found that in two seconds going through a Google search.
What was the delay? What was the issue? It seems the facts are obvious.
11:25 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
Madam Chair, I understand. As I said, I agree that it took longer than it needed to.
We do not want to be in this situation again, and we have taken steps to ensure that we are not in this situation again. Should we be in this situation again, yes, the minister can terminate it immediately. We also have a much better sense—
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
On what date did you provide advice from the department to the minister's office suggesting that you thought the contract should be suspended or terminated?
11:25 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
I would need to get back to you with the precise date.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
If you could come back with the precise date, that would be great.
Finally, would you be able to please produce the letter of termination and all of the letters between the department and CMAC on suspending and terminating the contract?
11:25 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage
If I am able to.... They may be protected.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
They should not be privileged, because they are letters to a third party. I would appreciate your producing that, if possible.
11:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I'm sorry. No wonder Anthony didn't hear me when I said that his time was up.
We're going over to the Bloc Québécois for six minutes.
Martin Champoux, you have six minutes, please.
