Evidence of meeting #20 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funds.
A video is available from Parliament.
7:35 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Thank you for that question.
The Privy Council Office is a consumer of intelligence. We don't collect intelligence. We receive raw intelligence and some assessed intelligence from the national security community, the departments I listed earlier—CSIS, CSE, Global Affairs Canada, Canadian Forces intelligence command—
7:35 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Yes, absolutely, the RCMP.
Some of it is assessed. Some of it is raw. Mr. Green's group does, for foreign intelligence, an assessment of all of that to provide a holistic view of the intelligence and what it could potentially mean.
7:35 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
You have access to all that information, don't you?
7:35 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
When did you speak to the RCMP commissioner for the last time before February 14?
7:35 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Thank you for that question.
We spoke multiple times every day.
7:35 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
So you spoke many times a day on the days leading up to February 14.
7:35 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Yes. We, I think, had provided information about the timelines, the days we had meetings and the kinds of meetings we had. The RCMP commissioner was at what we call “DMOC”, the deputy ministers operations committee. There were private conversations, one-on-one conversations—
7:35 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
I see. So you were always in contact with her and you spoke constantly. Did you ask her if she had a plan?
7:35 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
It was not her plan because the RCMP at that point in time.... The OPS was the police of jurisdiction, so it was not her plan. She was reporting on the planning efforts by the planning cell of the three levels of the policing units.
7:35 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
I see.
Did you ask her whether means other than invoking the Emergencies Act could be used? Did you ask her that question specifically?
7:35 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
I did not ask the commissioner of the RCMP that question specifically.
7:35 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
It's because we were having continual conversations regarding the two tracks of work: track one being existing legislation, track two being new authorities. If there were powers yet expended, the way the committee is structured, people put their opinions on the table.
7:35 p.m.
Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
I heard the Prime Minister testify before the Rouleau Commission, and he said he was looking for a way to do more.
Did you sense that the Prime Minister wanted to do more?
7:35 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Thank you for that question.
I can't speculate as to what the Prime Minister was thinking when he answered that question. The Prime Minister wanted the convoys across the country and the blockades to end. That was the question every day: How does this end?
7:35 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Senator Carignan, your time is up.
Senator Harder, go ahead.
7:35 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, PSG
Thank you very much, Chair.
Thank you again to the witnesses for their candour.
I want to talk a bit about the post-revocation work that you are doing. I'm particularly concerned about whether the lessons learned from this are in fact incorporated in the way you are working. I have a couple of questions.
Is the focus on IMVE more prominent as a result of this experience? Is there work under way? There was an announcement a couple of weeks ago that they were going to have a celebration of the event in February. Is there work that you are aware of to ensure a better intelligence-gathering to assess that? Is there ongoing work with our American colleagues because of the concerns for the economic well-being of trade routes, bridges in particular, that are at a heightened level now of regular engagement?
Could you describe a little...I wouldn't say lessons learned at this point, but a heightened operational awareness?
7:40 p.m.
National Security and Intelligence Advisor, Privy Council Office
Thank you very much for that question.
I think Mr. MacDonald would be very useful, as he chairs the ADMs, who do, as you know, the majority of this kind of work.
We are absolutely learning from what occurred and are trying to ensure we have that incorporated, where we saw deficiencies, as we go forward. “Freedom convoy 2023” was mentioned here today. Mr. MacDonald has already chaired meetings to start looking at how we're going to respond; DMs will be meeting for the first time about it this week.
Our two biggest issues coming out of this are IMVE—Ms. Chayer has spoken to that—and also, in a legal framework, a free speech environment, how we understand open-source domestic intelligence.
That's a big issue. You can't just sit on Twitter and understand what's going on. You need to use tools, artificial intelligence and those kinds of things, looking for keywords, algorithms, to help you understand what's happening. However, you need a legal framework to do that. Even though Twitter is public, there are still rights to privacy, according to the privacy laws of this country. Understanding the information and the trends that are out there without associating it to individuals who are not persons of interest, law enforcement or intelligence agencies is a big, complex issue. It's something that we are focusing a significant amount of work on but we don't yet have an answer to.
7:40 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Security and Intelligence, Privy Council Office
Chair, I'll be very quick, in respect of time.
There was an opportunity to actually put this in place and think about how the governance worked and how we responded as a community. There was the “Rolling Thunder” that occurred in April, and there was Canada Day, which is a massive gathering. A lot of the lessons and some of the ideas were put into the governance and decision structures there.
I would highlight one very important thing. I have a deeper relationship with the Ottawa police and directly sit with them and talk with them about these issues. That really didn't happen before. Also, with Operation Intersect in the national capital region—and this is only Ottawa-specific—there are conversations around what the future of Intersect could be, how it could expand, how it can share, how it can co-operate more. So there are—
7:40 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Mr. MacDonald, I'm going to have to cut you off there. We've gone over the time. Thank you.
Colleagues, we'll now move to five-minute rounds, if my notes are correct, beginning with Mr. Brock.
7:40 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Madam Chair, would this be an appropriate time for a health break?
7:40 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
If it's the wish of the committee, we can take five minutes.