Declaration of Emergency Committee on Dec. 1st, 2022

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

She asked me to repeat the question. With the chair's permission, I would like to repeat the question, Mr. Naqvi.

Would you agree with me that the Prime Minister either has a significant problem with his memory or he deliberately—

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Madam Chair, I didn't hear your ruling on whether he should repeat the question.

Can you make a ruling, please, Madam Chair?

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

I did. I told him to go ahead.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Can I repeat the question without being interrupted by the Liberal members?

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Would you kindly proceed so that we can carry on?

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I will proceed without interruption. Thank you, Chair.

Would you agree with me that the Prime Minister either has a significant problem with his memory or he deliberately and intentionally misled the Rouleau inquiry?

[Jody Thomas]

I believe that's a pejorative question. I won't answer it.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Ms. Bendayan, you have four minutes.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses who are appearing before us.

I understand that your advice to the federal government on February 13 and 14 was based on the intelligence that you were receiving from various sources. Is that your testimony here today?

[Jody Thomas]

Thank you for the question.

It was based on intelligence, yes, but also the actions being taken by various departments and the national security and intelligence community to work with their municipal and provincial partners to resolve the situation.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

I thought I understood from Ms. Chayer's testimony earlier that some of the intelligence you were receiving at ITAC included international terrorist threats that could possibly take advantage of the situation.

[Marie-Hélène Chayer]

I'm sorry. Could you repeat that last part?

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Were you concerned about any international threats to Canada at the time, given the lawlessness that was going on?

[Marie-Hélène Chayer]

We actually looked into it, and our concern and what we flagged in our report is that any violent extremist organization could seize the opportunity afforded by events like that.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Ms. Thomas, you mentioned earlier this evening a frankly shocking discovery. The Globe and Mail reported that newly unsealed court documents related to the conspiracy to murder RCMP officers in Coutts show that investigators found two pipe bombs, along with 36,098 rounds of ammunition, gas masks and firearms. Thankfully, these pipe bombs were dismantled by an explosives team. I also note that the CBC reported that one text message, cited by police, shows that the bosses told the men to spread the message that the real goal for the protest included altering Canada's political, judicial and medical systems.

It seems that you are aware of this information. You also mentioned that you were very concerned about the situation at Coutts. Is there anything you would like to or can add to the reporting that came out today?

[Jody Thomas]

Thank you very much for the question.

Other than the magnitude of it, the size and the behind-the-scenes intentions, which are now public and confirmed what we believed, I don't have anything to add. The determination to overthrow the government, whether here or through the use force in Coutts, and the use of public dissent to change the government or to have the government change public policy, including health policy, was an underlying motivation of the convoys.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

I thought I heard you earlier state that, having tried to use all of the existing tools and authorities, by the third weekend of this protest it was your determination that the federal government needed to step in. Is your testimony tonight that, based on the intelligence you had, all existing authorities and tools had been tried up to that point unsuccessfully?

[Jody Thomas]

Thank you for that question.

I can't say they'd been tried, because there were opportunities to use provincial legislation, and it wasn't used by the province.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

You said that you could not gain traction with the province.

[Jody Thomas]

Yes, that's correct.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

You also spoke about your call with the deputy NSA for Homeland Security in the United States. Are you aware of these...? You described the seriousness of the call. To your knowledge, has any such call ever been made by our American counterpart, and can you tell us a little bit more about the seriousness of that interaction?

[Jody Thomas]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Ms. Bendayan, your time is up. I'm wondering if she could just answer yes or no, and then maybe pick it up in the next round.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

I think we should allow the witness to answer.