To my knowledge, no.
Evidence of meeting #7 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #7 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A video is available from Parliament.
9 p.m.
D/Commr Michael Duheme
To my knowledge, no.
9 p.m.
Senator, Ontario, C
Okay, I'll allow Member of Parliament May to take the last question. Oh, she has gone already. Sorry.
I'm finished. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
9 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Okay, thank you very much.
We'll move to our final round, then.
Mr. Brock.
9 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you.
I have a question for both Ms. Lucki and Mr. Vigneault.
The Minister of Public Safety is on record as saying:
Canadians would be troubled with anyone that associates or attributes themselves to the extreme statements that have been made by the purported leaders of this convoy that would seek to incite the overthrow of the government through violence....
In reference to the memorandum of understanding and the manifesto of the convoy leaders, they were said to seek the co-operation of the Governor General and the Senate to end all federal mandates and to replace the federal government with a new framework of governance that respects the human dignity of all Canadians.
Where is the threat of violence in that?
9 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
To me those are words, and people have extreme views. Only when those extreme views go to violence, of course, is where our concern lies, and that's where we prioritized our enforcement efforts.
9 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Did you have reasonable grounds to arrest people based on those words?
9 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
We were very aware of those words—
9 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
—and we provided additional protection to the Governor General for that reason.
9 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Yes or no, were there reasonable grounds for you to believe an offence had been committed in relation to the memorandum of understanding and the manifesto?
9 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Not yet, no. Not at that point.
9 p.m.
Conservative
9 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I cannot speak for what the minister had in mind when he made those comments, but our assessment of the manifesto was that it was obviously something of concern. We needed to understand if they were either...the specific manifesto or other people who would be influenced by that manifesto—
9:05 p.m.
Conservative
9:05 p.m.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
CSIS does not have the power to recommend any criminal charges. That's not in our act.
9:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you.
The deputy commissioner of the OPP at the public safety committee several weeks ago indicated that one week prior to the invocation of the Emergencies Act—so by simple math that would be February 7—the OPP had declared that there was a national emergency.
My question for both individuals is in relation to the convoy itself. This was a convoy that was permitted by Ottawa Police Service and the city council and mayor as to where to park. There was an off-site location for supplies and the supply route, etc. I asked this question several times of ministers with zero response. I'm hoping the two of you can find a response. What was the event that caused this lawful assembly as protected by the charter, paragraphs 2(b), (c) and (d), to be an illegal blockade and thus a national emergency?
That is for both witnesses.
9:05 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
I will say that from the very onset, it was very soon...that it was not a legal protest. It was an illegal blockade. As far as the threshold is concerned, that's not for me to comment on. I can only comment on the act itself and how we used it, but the decision-maker—
9:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
You were part of the integrated command centre, Ms. Lucki. That information must have been shared with you, so what was the information that was shared with you?
9:05 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
I'm not a decision-maker when it comes to—
9:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I'm not asking for your decision, but about the following. The OPP had declared that one week before the invocation there was an event that they deemed to constitute a national emergency. What was shared with you as part of the integrated command centre?
9:05 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
There were operational specifics on the ground. It was known to the RCMP that there were some individuals within the convoy who posed potential threats to national security. We had no level of certainty about their capability, about the intent. If a nexus to national security would be identified, the RCMP would—
9:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you.
The Emergencies Act provides offences, a fine of up to $100,000 and a term of imprisonment for not more than one year. You'd agree with me, Ms. Lucki, that there were no charges laid under the Emergencies Act by way of those offences in relation to the Ottawa convoy?
9:05 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Not to the ones you're referring to, no.
9:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
In fact, in all of the other blockades across Canada, before and after the invocation of the act, not one charge under the Emergencies Act, correct...?
9:05 p.m.
Commr Brenda Lucki
Not to my knowledge.