Evidence of meeting #7 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Joint Chair  Hon. Gwen Boniface (Senator, Ontario, ISG)
Brenda Lucki  Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
David Vigneault  Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Commissioner Michael Duheme  Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Claude Carignan  Senator, Quebec (Mille Isles), C
Peter Harder  Senator, Ontario, PSG
Vernon White  Senator, Ontario, C
Brian Brennan  Deputy Commissioner, Contract and Indigenous Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Marie-Hélène Chayer  Executive Director, Integrated Terrorism Assessment Centre, Canadian Security Intelligence Service

8:30 p.m.

The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface

No.

8:30 p.m.

Liberal

Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC

There will not be another round after this?

8:30 p.m.

The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface

Oh, perhaps; go quickly.

8:30 p.m.

Liberal

Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC

Well, I would add that time to my next round. I believe we will have time for another round.

Thank you.

8:30 p.m.

The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface

All right. Thank you.

We will move to Mr. Fortin.

8:30 p.m.

Bloc

The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin

Thank you, Madam Chair. Are you adding Ms. Bendayan's five minutes to mine? I see you aren't. Okay.

Ms. Lucki, you told us that the situation on Wellington Street, here in Ottawa, got worse from one weekend to the next. I repeat that, elsewhere in Canada, you ended blockades without the use of emergency measures. Here, on the Hill, we know that that was a problem, and the declaration took effect on February 14 of this year. Before that, I know you set up a special team in co‑operation with the Ontario Provincial Police and the Ottawa Police Service. You told us in your comments that the situation got worse from one weekend to the next, that it was going from bad to worse.

Were you waiting for a specific event or time before taking action? Why was the situation getting worse? What were you waiting for before taking action?

8:30 p.m.

Commr Brenda Lucki

I would say from the RCMP policing perspective that the blockade in Ottawa was supported and organized by several organizers who were able to obtain significant amounts of funding. So that changed it. It was in an urban environment as opposed to a rural environment—

8:30 p.m.

Bloc

The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin

Excuse me for interrupting, Ms. Lucki, but I have very little time.

What were you waiting for? You told me that the situation was getting worse from one weekend to the next. Were you waiting for a specific event, specific authorization or a specific time? What were you waiting for to take action when you saw that the situation was deteriorating each week?

8:30 p.m.

Commr Brenda Lucki

We were there to assist with the police of jurisdiction, which was the Ottawa Police Service. I can't say what they were waiting for. I can say that the funding allowed the protest to grow, particularly over the weekends, and there was—

8:30 p.m.

Bloc

The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin

You can't answer. I know that the Ontario police....

There was a team of people from the Ontario Provincial Police, the Ottawa Police Service and the RCMP. You said that you consulted each other and that you worked together. You saw the situation getting worse from week to week.

As the leader of the RCMP, what were you waiting for to say enough is enough and that action needed to be taken?

8:30 p.m.

Commr Brenda Lucki

Well, what I wanted to see was a solid enforcement plan, and that was put together by the Ontario police—

8:30 p.m.

Bloc

The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin

You told us that you had a solid plan on February 12. You were no longer waiting for that.

8:30 p.m.

Commr Brenda Lucki

Yes. We brought planners together and we put together a plan. A massive amount of resources were required. We needed to bring the resources into the city, because the plan required more resources than we had on the ground. We brought resources from across the country—

8:30 p.m.

Bloc

The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin

Okay. What resources did you bring in from elsewhere in the country, and what were you waiting for?

8:35 p.m.

Commr Brenda Lucki

I will pass that to my colleague Mike Duheme, who was running that—

8:35 p.m.

Bloc

The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin

I'd like your response. What were you waiting for, Ms. Lucki? Aren't you in charge?

8:35 p.m.

Commr Brenda Lucki

Yes. I am. I was waiting for the—

8:35 p.m.

Bloc

The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin

Okay. What were you waiting for to take action? You say that you were waiting for resources from elsewhere. What resources are you referring to?

8:35 p.m.

Commr Brenda Lucki

They were resources from Regina city police, from RCMP across the country, from Saskatoon police and from Calgary police, I believe. Resources from all over the country were being brought in, and officers from across the country, so that we could effectively enforce, going into that last weekend—

8:35 p.m.

Bloc

The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin

Okay, I understand. You're talking about human resources, police officers. You were waiting for police officers, not tow trucks.

8:35 p.m.

Commr Brenda Lucki

Yes.

8:35 p.m.

Bloc

The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin

I have one last question for you in the 15 seconds I have left.

What would you do differently if a situation like that happened again today?

8:35 p.m.

Commr Brenda Lucki

With the benefit of hindsight, obviously, when we were looking at the biker convoy that came through, we brought in lessons learned, of course. They included blocking off certain areas, no stopping, not allowing people to park and stop. A slow-moving protest is fine.

Another lesson was engaging with the protest organizers. In the motorcycle one there was one organizer. In the protest in Ottawa there were seven or eight different organizers, so it was hard to get any agreement amongst the various groups there because there were team captains from every part of the country.

Obviously, we had the benefit of hindsight from what we learned from the protest in Ottawa and we were able to use that for the thunder convoy that came in a couple weekends ago.

8:35 p.m.

The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface

Thank you, Commissioner. I'm afraid Mr. Fortin's time is up.

8:35 p.m.

Bloc

The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In closing, I congratulate you, Ms. Lucki. It was a good response.