Declaration of Emergency Committee on May 31st, 2022

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

It's already there.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

What isn't there, though, is “and be published on the committee's website forthwith upon receipt”. That is not in (f), and it needs to be in (f).

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Right. I understand.

I'm not forgetting you, Mr. Harder and Mr. White.

I just want to make sure I understand properly. Mr. Motz, you are proposing that the words “published on the committee's website forthwith upon receipt” that appear at the end of paragraph (i) be added to paragraph (f) after the sentence that states that the documents must be produced in both official languages. Is that right?

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Yes, Chair.

Paragraph (f) could then read, as proposed, “these documents shall be deposited with the committee, in both official languages, within one month of the adoption of this order” and then we could just add at the end of it “and be published on the committee's website forthwith upon receipt”.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Right.

I know it's against the usual rules, but in order to untangle all this, it may be useful.

Does everyone agree to Mr. Motz's proposal? No. Right.

Mr. Motz, we're going to continue discussing Mr. Harder's proposal to strike paragraphs (g), (h) and (i).

[Peter Harder]

Let's vote on it.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Yes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Your earliest interventions basically omitted everything beyond paragraph (i), though.

[Vernon White]

No, that was just to clean up that piece of it, and then I said we would deal with the rest paragraph by paragraph.

If I may, Mr. Chair, from my perspective, we may end up putting it all on a website, but I'd like to see what we receive rather than be obligated to throw it on a website through a motion.

My perspective is that we deal with it when we receive the documents. We'll make adult decisions as a committee. We may put everything on a website. The truth is, as a committee, we'll have the documents. Nothing stops any member from doing what they want with them, either.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. White.

We have to proceed another way, because we're going to get lost.

Mr. White, Mr. Harder, Mr. Green and Mr. Virani want to speak.

I would remind you that we are going to deal with the amendments one by one; otherwise, we're going to get lost.

We were at paragraphs (g), (h) and (i), that Mr. Harder proposes to strike. I'm going to hear comments on that proposal.

Mr. White, had you finished what you wanted to say, or do you have something else to add? No? Right.

Mr. Harder, do you want the floor?

[Peter Harder]

No.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Mr. Green, do you want to speak?

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

I want to just state that one of the challenges I'm having with this committee is the notion that we were struck in a special way and sworn in. It's the first time I've been sworn in to a committee like that, which I assumed would have granted us a deeper access into documents.

First of all, I'm a proponent of open and transparent government. I don't know what we're going to get, but my concern is that this committee is, in many ways, being relegated to the same threshold of openness and transparency as the public, and we hopefully have a much higher mandate that that.

I'll just state on the record now that I am supporting the way in which we've modified this motion in good faith and that we will get substantive information. I'll even state on the record that, should information contained within the documents as submitted to this committee require us going in camera for review, then that's something we should expect to do, but if what we end up getting are things that would generally be available to the general public, then I would state for the purpose of the record that it would be a great disservice to this committee. That would, in fact, undermine, I think, the principles through which the House and the Senate sent us here, and it would create a whole other subset of problems down the line.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

Does anyone else wish to speak to the proposal to strike the paragraphs in question?

We're listening, Mr. Virani.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I'll be very brief, Mr. Chair.

I would just agree wholeheartedly with what Senator White has said, and I think it's consistent with earlier interventions at different points in this committee's deliberations tonight about not presupposing. In the same way we have agreed by consensus not to presuppose the bases of redactions or assertions of privilege, I think presupposing what should or should not eventually appear on the website is probably premature to determine at this stage, which is why, to my mind, it makes sense to go back to Senator Harder's original suggestion, rather than referencing now what goes or doesn't go on the website, and just to strike paragraph (i) in its entirety along with paragraphs (g) and (h).

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Does everyone agree?

It seems to be unanimous.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Paragraphs (g), (h) and (i) are therefore stricken from Mr. Motz's motion.

I think we now have to dispose of the motion. We have already decided to strike paragraph (j) and the following paragraphs, and we have just stricken paragraphs (g), (h) and (i). What we have left are paragraphs (a), (b), (c), (d) and (e), which have been kept as they are, and paragraph (f), which has been amended so that the documents will be deposited with the committee rather than with the law clerks and parliamentary counsel.

I therefore put the question on Mr. Motz's motion as amended.

The vote is unanimous.

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Are there other motions you want to discuss?

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

My hand is up, Mr. Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Forgive me, Mr. Naqvi, I didn't see you. I forgot you.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You've forgotten me for the last hour. I've had my hand up a few times, but that's okay. I understand.

I would like to move a motion at this time as well.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Right, Mr. Naqvi.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. I'll read the motion, and I believe the staff will be circulating it. The motion, Chair, reads as follows:

That the committee instruct the analyst to prepare an interim report and that this report be tabled in the House no later than Thursday, September 29, 2022, and that the committee instruct the analyst to prepare a final report and that this final report be tabled in the House no later than December 8, 2022.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Can we decide on May 31 to ask for an interim report to be tabled in September?

Mr. Naqvi, did I understand the dates correctly? You want an interim report to be tabled in September, is that right?

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm suggesting an interim report by September 29, 2022, and a final report no later than December 8, 2022. I believe the clerk should be getting the motion in English and in French.