Evidence of meeting #112 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agency.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Again, this is on page 10. It's replacing lines 16 to 20. It's making sure that projects, as defined in section 81:
“or other activities”
This is the important point, the activities—
“carried out in accordance with this Act, that are to be carried out on federal or Indigenous lands”
—of course that was ruled out—
“or that may impact Indigenous rights and that may be subject to a federal authority or financially supported by a federal authority, are carried out in a manner that avoids significant adverse effects;”
It expands proposed paragraph (l).
There were great concerns submitted by a lot of witnesses that this bill is going to severely reduce what matters will be reviewed federally and is limited only to projects likely on the project list. They are saying that we need to have “other activities”, such as consideration of whether to approve the Olympics in Banff National Park. It is not necessarily a physical project but an approval that may impact an area subject to federal jurisdiction responsibility.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Okay, I think that's clear.
Shall the amendment carry?
(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1)
Amendment LIB-6 has been withdrawn. That's not being considered for line 20.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Remember that you split it, so I'm going line by line.
We're on NDP-19(d), which is talking about line 27.
We're going line by line, Linda. Go ahead.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I'm deeply concerned, as a former environmental enforcer, with the language in (n), on page 10, line 27. It says:
to encourage improvements to impact assessments through the use of follow-up programs.
I don't know what that is. I don't know if that's ever stated in law or anywhere else. My proposal is to say:
through the exercise of federal regulatory and enforcement powers and the use of follow-up programs.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
The question is on follow-up programs. Would one of those at the table want to explain that if there is any mis—
Brent Parker Director, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
I can speak to that.
To understand the question, it's does the follow-up program exist in the legislation?
It does. There's requirement for a follow-up. That follow-up is an obligation that will come out of the decision statement conditions. There has to be a follow-up program, and then that follow-up program has conditions associated with it. That is implemented by the responsible authority under this act. It would be the impact assessment agency.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Is it not an important addition to this law, which was one of the things the government said they would include, to start having enforceability of conditions?
I don't consider that a follow-up program is ensuring compliance of the conditions that are imposed. A follow-up program does not cover the rest of the provisions of the bill. There might be regulatory measures and enforcement measures.
Director, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
There are other sections of the bill that speak to that. There are conditions. They are enforceable. They come out of the decision statement that the minister would issue at the end of the public interest test if the project were approved.
There is a section that begins in proposed section 120 that lays out the specific provisions around enforceability and compliance associated with those.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Again, this is the beginning part of the bill that talks about the purposes. It would be my understanding that one of the purposes of this bill is that in order to ensure compliance and adherence to the conditions, we will now have provisions to do with enforcement. We will exercise federal regulatory enforcement powers.
You can decide not to support it, but it's part of the bill that's been added in that wasn't there before.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
I think the explanation was given.
Do you want to add anything to that?
Director, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
The only thing I would add is that there is a current follow-up program under CEAA 2012 as well. That specific point about it in the purpose arises here, but the follow-up program actually exists currently.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
I have a very quick question, Mr. Parker.
A follow-up program is not an enforcement program, correct?
Director, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
Correct.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Thank you.
We're dealing with the purposes. We have a list of the things that reflect the purposes of this bill: “to foster sustainability; protect the components of the environment, and the health, social and economic conditions that are within the legislative authority of Parliament from adverse effects”, ensure impact assessments are properly done; “promote cooperation and coordinated action”.
The one thing that's missing is actually enforcement of the laws that the government has passed and the regulatory scheme. The biggest complaint I hear from Canadians about the application of Canadian laws is when those laws are not enforced, or not enforced sufficiently to make a difference in the lives of Canadians.
I'm surprised. This is an eminently sensible amendment to propose, one that the Liberals shouldn't fight.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
We just heard an explanation, so maybe, Mr. Parker, you could repeat where that comes in.
Vice-President, Policy Development Sector, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
Perhaps I could just add that as part of the legislation, conditions of decisions and statements are enforceable. A follow-up and monitoring program could be a condition of a decision statement, and those are enforceable.