Environment Committee on May 12th, 2021

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Again, it's a really important question coming out of COVID. It's clear that young Canadians want to develop the skills and experience to be able to help build a cleaner and greener economy. The science horizons youth internship program, which falls under the broader federal youth employment and skills strategy, aims to give opportunities to youth with post-secondary education by providing eligible employers with wage subsidies to hire youth with a post-secondary education who are eligible to work in science and technology.

I was recently at a company in Vancouver called Terramera. I met a couple of folks in that program who are working in the green economy. These are the kinds of things that we really need to be focused on, because that economy is going to need workers, and I think young people will really want to be participants in that development.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I can slip in one final question.

I want to talk about some of the transfers you have to help reduce emissions in government operations. It's important that we, in the government, lead by example. If we want Canadians to move to zero emissions, it's important that we lead the way.

How are we getting government operations to net zero, so that we can build a Canada for the future?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As a government, you have to be able to walk the walk. On one side of this is figuring out how you are procuring in a manner whereby you are actually procuring green goods and helping to build the kind of economy that you want to have in the future. It's also about federal departments investing in lower-carbon buildings, heating plants, energy efficiency and retrofits.

Our target is for the government to achieve a 40% reduction by 2025 and to get to net zero by 2050. The focus very much has been on a number of steps to get there. We are making good progress. We are actually ahead of schedule. We have a goal to power federal buildings with 100% clean energy by 2022. The budget put about $15 million into the purchase of renewable energy certificates for all federal buildings.

It's about supporting job creation and attracting investments, but it's also about showing that we are actually doing what we say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Minister.

The minister was kind enough to give us an hour today. We've hit the one-hour mark on the dot.

Minister, I'll thank you for being here and answering all these questions. We look forward to seeing you on Monday to answer more questions.

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

The officials from Parks Canada and the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada will stay with us for another hour to answer more questions.

So we will now start the third round of questions.

I will not take the time to identify everyone coming in, but I think some people have to be added.

Madam Clerk, are the witnesses coming in already online or do we have to wait for them?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Angela Crandall]

All the witnesses are here and the sound has been checked.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Excellent. That makes for a smooth transition.

Let's move on and start the third round of questions with Mr. Redekopp.

Mr. Redekopp, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to pass that to Mr. Jeneroux.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You're keeping me on my toes here. Are you switching with Mr. Jeneroux? He was further down in this round.

Mr. Jeneroux, go ahead.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Redekopp, for the kind gesture.

I'm looking here at the recent Gazette on plastics, which was published just today. I know Ms. Hogan and a few others are on the call. I wonder if any provinces expressed their displeasure with the proposed order and the proposed approach.

[Christine Hogan]

Thank you very much.

I am joined today by a few colleagues, including Helen Ryan, who is our associate assistant deputy minister responsible for the plastics file. I will ask Helen to reply, if you are okay with that.

[Helen Ryan, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment]

In terms of the formal consultation period, provinces provided responses, specifically the province of Alberta. Since then there have been a number of provinces that have expressed some concerns with respect to using CEPA as the vehicle for listing plastic manufactured items.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Which other provinces? How many?

We know Ms. Ryan well at this committee. She attends often.

If you have the number of provinces, it would be helpful.

[Helen Ryan]

Mr. Chair, I believe it's five provinces, but I will need to confirm that for you. I can provide that following the meeting.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Ryan.

In the wake of the Supreme Court decision on carbon pricing and the national concern doctrine, do you believe the provinces are constitutionally incapable of acting to reduce plastic waste without the federal government interfering?

It's probably best directed to Ms. Ryan again, if Ms. Hogan doesn't want to answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That might be a difficult question for public servants to answer; it's kind of an interpretation—

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Do you want to take it, Mr. Chair? You're welcome to take it on behalf of the government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I'm not actually in the government; I'm on the government side, but I'm not actually in the government.

Would you agree, Ms. Hogan, that it's not a question that officials can answer?

[Christine Hogan]

It is a legal question, I think, in some ways.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Jeneroux, why don't we move on to another question, then?

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

I was hoping that there might be, maybe, some follow-up. I know there are lots of lawyers employed under Environment Canada; perhaps they could take that back and take a bit more of a deeper dive into it. I know it's legal, but at the same time it's pretty significant in terms of the direction of where plastic is going.

That being said, I'll leave it to the department. We did hear, over and over again, on our plastics study, that the ban on plastics would kill good-paying middle-class jobs and export these jobs to other countries, making Canada the only country in the world that will declare plastics toxic.

We've heard that this will cause trade and transportation issues to the manufacturing sector, increase the cost of Canadians' grocery bills, and lead to more costly alternatives and increased food waste, with no environmental or economic benefits to Canada. We also know that countries like the U.S. have raised major concerns regarding the designation of plastics as toxic.

Can the government provide us with the definition of “plastic manufactured items”?

[Christine Hogan]

Again, I'll ask Ms. Ryan to respond to that question.

[Helen Ryan]

Plastic manufactured items encompasses any item that's made from a plastic form and includes a specific shape or design during the manufacturing of it. It includes final products, as well as components of products and packaging. The reason for having a broad definition of plastic manufactured items is, as we've heard, that we're looking to be able to take actions across the life cycle of plastic and to be able to implement specific measures that have been requested, such as defining recycled context support for extended producer responsibility and other like measures.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Ryan.

My next question is, has the government conducted a cost-benefit analysis for the classification of all plastic manufactured items as toxic?