Environment Committee on May 17th, 2021

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you.

I have a question for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association. One of the major economic drivers in my home province, of course, is agriculture. While in my riding of Saskatoon we don't have a lot of farms, we do have feed mills, train hubs and food processing and many constituents who work in these industries. My son worked on a dairy farm for a while, which he loved, although it was the hardest job he's ever done.

Ms. Jackson, you guys produced this great short film called Guardians of the Grasslands. Can you just quickly describe the central message of that film?

[Fawn Jackson]

Yes, it was environmental organizations and beef producers talking about how Canadian grasslands are really Canada's Amazon rainforest or our coral reef, and what we need to do to protect them because they're disappearing at very alarming rates. It's quite an emotional short film. It's 12 minutes long. I really encourage everybody to look it up.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Is that something you could provide to the committee so that we could watch it?

[Fawn Jackson]

Absolutely. It would be our pleasure.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I have another question. I've heard people talk about beef production being harmful. I'm just wondering; what is the impact of beef on other species and how does that relate to what we're trying to accomplish through Bill C-12?

[Fawn Jackson]

Reynold, do you want to take that?

[Dr. Reynold Bergen]

Certainly, I can.

I think in terms of how beef production impacts other species, beef production occurs on one of the most biodiverse landscapes in the world, in Canada, in particular. Beef production is occurring on natural habitats that develop under the influence of a large grazer.

Maintaining the health of those rangelands means maintaining the health of everything that's on there and preserving those rangelands maintains habitat for pollinators, for thousands of different species of plants and for all kinds of wildlife. It contributes, obviously, to carbon sequestration—we've talked about that—but also to watersheds and maintenance of habitat for migratory waterfowl because we don't drain our wetlands. It's very compatible with biodiversity. It supports it actually, and one of the big challenges is, as we mentioned, the 80% loss of the northern great plains. That's led to significant habitat fragmentation.

We still have patches of northern great plains here and there, but it's shrinking and it's fragmenting and that's not good for biodiversity.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Maybe related to that, I know that the cattle herd in Canada has faced significant reductions in the past couple decades. There was BSE and low profitability on farms and, in fact, it took a lot of heavy lifting by Prime Minister Harper and agriculture minister Gerry Ritz to bring the beef sector back to profitability.

Can you explain the unintended consequences of beef farmers when they exit the industry and what impact that has on greenhouse emissions?

[Dr. Reynold Bergen]

Certainly. The number one thing.... I mean, we just talked about biodiversity. When canola is worth $20 a bushel, one of the first things that happens is that shelter belts get torn out. The second thing that happens is that marginal lands get torn out. When we say “marginal lands”, those are lands that aren't really great for crop production, but it might be worth the risk when canola is worth $20 a bushel.

When that land gets cultivated, right off the bat between 30% and 50% of the stored carbon enters the atmosphere. It's like burning down the bank. Soil carbon is like a bank account. Whether it's through good crop management or good rangeland management, we're making incremental deposits in that carbon bank every year. When we cultivate it, we lose it. It's like burning down the bank with no insurance. We lose it very quickly, and it takes decades to get it back.

Those would be the two big things I would point to: loss of biodiversity and significant loss of sequestered carbon entering the atmosphere.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

What are the events that cause that loss? What would cause somebody to cultivate a piece of land, then?

[Dr. Reynold Bergen]

Economics is largely the one. Regardless of the crop, when the price is high, there is an incentive to grow that, because you don't pay the environmental cost right away. You see that over time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're out of time.

We'll go now to Mr. Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

I have a couple of questions for a couple of the folks who are here, and I hope to get to them. I ask for your help in being as concise as you possibly can on a very complex topic.

Thank you all for being here, though.

Mr. Gage, first off, it's interesting that you said you had a full head of hair when Canada started setting climate targets, and then started not meeting them. I may lose my hair quickly as well, particularly in this line of work, but I'm pretty confident that Canada is going to start meeting those targets. In part that's because I believe the government is committed to it, and in part because I think Canadians consider this a priority and will support the government.

You spoke of something that I want to ask you about, if I could.

If I understood you correctly, you spoke about the need to set more frequent targets and further in advance. I'm wondering, in 60 seconds or less, why do you believe that's important?

[Andrew Gage]

As I indicated in my opening, climate change action requires the government to take short-term action to bend the curve now—we're all familiar with COVID terminology—but it also requires that you put in place measures now that will start achieving further reductions 10 or 15 years out. If you set just one plan at a time, the government is focusing on achieving that target, but they are not charged with considering what happens next.

The minister, in his statement to you, said that the plan provides for “rolling targets”. That's not true. Rolling targets means that you set more than one target, and when one expires you set another.

The minister has indicated a couple of times that this is the intent here. However, the legislation as drafted has government either just considering what happens between now and 2030 or in five-year increments thereafter, and that doesn't really work in terms of considering both relevant...and for the 2050 target as a long-term goal.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Your recommendation, though, is that those targets must be set further in advance. I think you said 10 years at one point, or 15 years. Does that address that problem?

[Andrew Gage]

It's on a rolling basis, so there will be two five-year targets in any one year's time.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

I would like to ask Dr. Pétrin-Desrosiers a question now, if I may.

I represent the constituency of Etobicoke-Centre, which is located in the western part of the city of Toronto. Your colleague, Dr. Howard, explained to us in detail the impacts of climate change on her community. However, I believe that, at times, those of us in cities may not see the same impacts as in Dr. Howard's community.

For my constituents watching us, could you describe the impacts of climate change on people living in urban communities?

[Dr. Claudel Pétrin-Desrosiers]

I would be glad to. Thank you for your question, I will be quick.

One of the most significant effects of climate change on health in urban communities is the exposure to extreme heat. Climate change will bring about heat waves that are more frequent, longer-lasting and hotter. So they will grow in intensity, as will the stress they cause on the public. During hot weather, those who are better off or who have few health problems can adapt. But in less fortunate areas, with lower socioeconomic levels, you find fewer trees and more concrete. That creates conditions that make exposure to heat much more toxic and dangerous.

In the south of the country, especially in the cities, the effect of heat can be very significant, both in terms of mortality, meaning the number of deaths linked to climate change, and in terms of morbidity, meaning the number of conditions that can become more serious. These are conditions such as cardiac disease, lung disease and diabetes, all very current in the adult population.

So, in cities, we can expect very specific impacts, without even considering significant additional exposure to the extreme meteorological events that can be expected. One example is the flooding we have witnessed in a number of cities in Quebec recently.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have about 15 seconds.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay.

Thank you, everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You asked good questions.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Can I have the 15 seconds left over?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Sure, go ahead.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

My question is for Dr. Pétrin-Desrosiers.

Could I ask you for a quick answer, because I would also like to ask Mr. Gage a question?

What are the main improvements that you would make to Bill C-12?