Evidence of meeting #102 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was forecasting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
If my decision is overturned, then Mr. Mazier will table a motion, and we'll debate the motion.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
You're with Mr. Mazier.
(Ruling of the chair overturned: nays 6; yeas 5)
Mr. Mazier, you can table your motion.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you.
It reads:
Whereas the Committee passed a motion on Thursday, March 21, 2024, which stated in part:
The committee order the production of “Environment and Climate Change Canada's provincial-territorial computable general equilibrium model — EC-Pro” including (i) the “statistical technique to isolate the carbon pricing contribution”, (ii) a list of all “Ref” parameters including the 'Ref22” and “Ref22A” parameters used in EC-Pro, (iii) the EC-Pro model that projected that “carbon pollution pricing will contribute as much as one-third of Canada's emissions reductions” including all (i) parameters, (ii) economic modelling, and (iii) assumptions; and that these documents be provided to the committee within one week of the adoption of the motion.
And whereas Environment and Climate Change Canada has failed to provide all information ordered by the committee within the adopted timeline.
Accordingly, the Committee views this failure to comply with this committee....
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Yes, this is a new motion.
The motion concerns a point of privilege.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
I'll go back to where I was interrupted:
And whereas Environment and Climate Change Canada has failed to provide all information ordered by the committee within the adopted timeline.
Accordingly, the Committee views this failure to comply with the committee order as a violation of its privileges, and that this matter be reported to the House.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We have Mr. van Koeverden here, and then Mr. Longfield, Ms. Collins and Madame Pauzé.
Liberal
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
When we went around the horn when you were deciding, basically, your motion of privilege, the documents—and you held them up, Chair—had a “Draft” watermark all over them. I just read the motion. They weren't even from ECCC. They admitted that right in the document, so to think that they somehow answered the whole question of the committee and we can just ask again is actually quite false. It didn't even come close to where we were trying to get with this.
The reason there are details, and references to the 22 and 22A and all that, is that it was in response to an Order Paper question that they actually denied these are the results. It was going to come to their emissions reductions and everything was going to work out fine, “Just believe us and the model,” so we simply asked the government to prove that point. Unfortunately, this government, the ECCC, chose to absolutely not refer to the committee at all—
NDP
Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC
I was just trying to get your attention to get on the speaking list.
Liberal
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
This is the conundrum I'm in, especially as an MP trying to figure out what this government's up to. They keep telling us that they're reducing emissions, and “Just pay your tax and everything will be just fine.” It is very frustrating, and not only frustrating to me, representing a rural area and paying a disproportionate part of the carbon tax, but also to every Canadian.
The number one issue that I was listening to for the last two weeks was affordability, and, “What are we doing with this carbon tax?” They couldn't believe that this is actually going up. The carbon tax was going up 23% on April 1. Everybody knew that, yet this government kept on plowing forward. Then to add insult to injury, they're paying, actually..... An actual natural gas bill—I used this example earlier today—of $100 is paying a carbon tax amount of about $110 to $115.
The point is that they did not answer the question at all in this regime, and I honestly believe that we need to get to the bottom of this and get these questions answered. Let's see what we can actually do with this model, because it's not really the prerogative of the department to say, “No, we have to turn this around, and we're not going to answer you, committee.” That is not the prerogative of the department. They have to be held accountable, and someone is actually saying that this is okay.
I would like to know who, from ECCC or the minister's department, said, “Yes, let's give them this,” and actually write in there, “Oh, this isn't from ECCC. Let's see if they actually read it.” This is what it is:
Please note that this is a draft in progress. Any comments will be appreciated.
I'll tell you, they're going to find out what kinds of comments they're going to get.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
It says:
Views expressed in this paper are those of the authors and do not reflect those of Environment and Climate Change Canada or the Government of Canada.
Here we are:
The committee order the production of “Environment and Climate Change Canada's provincial-territorial computable general equilibrium model...[ECCC]
You know, we went through the (ii) and (iii) and all that, all these parameters. It continues:
And whereas Environment and Climate Change Canada has failed to provide all information ordered by the committee within the adopted timeline.
This is what, the second or third time we've asked for this, and then they just blow us off with this? It's totally unacceptable. I think the more people find out.... What are they are hiding? What is the government hiding? That's what people keep on asking. I keep on asking that, and I know that all my colleagues are asking that question.
It's outrageous. I do honestly believe we need to debate this. We need to get to the bottom of this. All they have to do is just produce the model and answer the questions. That's simply all they have to do. For the life of me, I cannot understand why they will not do that. I have to wonder why. I really do wonder why.
You wonder why we're calling on the Prime Minister to bring in all the premiers and try to gather them around. You know—
Conservative
Branden Leslie Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I'm just curious, because you did mention that we might run out of resources: Are we able to add ourselves to the speaking list on the resources available today?
Liberal
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I think we have to be done at 6:15, unless we ask. Maybe we could ask them how much time they could add.
