Environment Committee on April 9th, 2024

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

We could just suspend and find out, if you have time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

What's the latest we can go with the resources?

Do you want to be on the list, though?

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Did you make note of my name, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, Ms. Pauzé.

Go ahead, Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I'd like you to add my name to the list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

All right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Mazier, are you still speaking on this?

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Yes. What I was talking about earlier today is how fundamentally rural Canada has changed because of the carbon tax.

Back in 2016, I was basically a farm leader at the time. I was president of the Keystone Agriculture Producers. I was around, actually, when Minister McKenna introduced the carbon tax.

We were promised that it was going to be revenue neutral and we weren't going to go beyond $50 a tonne. I'll have to admit that the farmers were leery, but we were trying to give them a chance and see what this new idea was all about.

As we go forward eight years, by increasing the amount of what is the cost to farmers in general, they've basically tripled it. We're up to $65 a tonne right now, and it is really starting to drag on the rural economy. It has fundamentally changed the economic model for agriculture. I don't think people honestly understand what they're doing with that.

We were talking about trying to provide the infrastructure for water today. This is all about landscape management. This is all about protecting the resources in Canada, and we can't do it with this anchor of a carbon tax around our neck in rural Canada.

With that, I close. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is just a reminder to anybody who's watching that the Conservative Party in 2021 ran on a promise to price pollution at the same price that we are currently pricing pollution. An organization called Clean Prosperity said, in an exit poll, that Erin O'Toole “Was Right to Embrace Carbon Pricing”. They said:

As part of his climate policy, Conservative leader Erin O'Toole...proposed a carbon pricing system that would raise the costs of gasoline and home heating. However, all the money that you pay in carbon pricing would be deposited for you in a low-carbon savings account.

It was affectionately termed, “the more you burn, the more you earn”, like some kind of a loyalty program for using fossil fuels.

Now, in a hypothetical alternate universe, if the Conservatives had won the last federal election, then, in 2024, where we find ourselves, there would be a price on pollution. If Erin O'Toole were the prime minister, there would continue to be a carbon tax.

We ran on a commitment to price carbon and pollution at the rate that we are currently doing, which represents the integrity of our platform and the follow-through of our commitment to Canadians to reduce our emissions.

Now, the current crop of Conservatives apparently have spun on their heels. They don't agree.

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I will point out that Mr. Leslie didn't run on that in his campaign because he ran a different campaign, if that's what he would like to say.

I can make that point for you, thank you very much—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Order.

[An hon. member]

I would like to hear the question in all of this—

[Branden Leslie, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

To the motion at hand, Mr. Chair—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

He ran a campaign on homophobia, not on anti-carbon pricing—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Order.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Excuse me, everybody.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

It's been a pretty wide-ranging discussion. Mr. Mazier talked about the agricultural sector. He ventured into a broader discussion of carbon pricing and its impact. Perhaps we could keep it on track.

I won't rule that Mr. van Koeverden is out of order or anything, but let's try to keep it on the topic of producing the documents that Mr. Mazier wants produced.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

The fact is that we spend so much time in this environment committee talking about carbon pricing, and it was a mutual commitment of our last two federal campaigns. This is something that we both ran on a commitment for.

I accept that MP Leslie ran his own campaign—you didn't run on the same price, because your leader was Pierre Poilievre—but earlier today, a member of Parliament, Ted Falk, said in debate that the oceans were responsible for more carbon than humans. A couple of weeks ago, a Conservative member of Parliament said that body heat was responsible for global warming. We're not dealing with people who are relying on facts and evidence or research.

When we are asked to provide documents and those documents are provided, it's no surprise that the Conservatives don't like the math or don't like the evidence. They've leaned into climate change denial as their policy plank now. It's not that they don't agree with the fact that our climate is changing; they've now decided that they don't like the answers they've received—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Go ahead, Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Can we keep it relevant? I'm talking about a motion producing a model. I don't know what this has to do with us denying anything.

Thank you.