Evidence of meeting #127 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was parks.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Retired Member of Parliament, As an Individual
To my understanding, he was terminated.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Oh, wow. Do you believe people are afraid to speak out against Parks Canada because they may be punished?
Retired Member of Parliament, As an Individual
It's always been a problem. I won't even say it's Parks Canada. I was an RCMP officer for 35 years, working in a federal government environment. You don't speak out against management, even though you may disagree. That was there in the parks.
I had a good working relationship with the wardens and the people working in the park, as I did with the federal jail in our area. I think they trusted me because of my background, but there was a disconnection. There were two sides to the park, an ecological side and a practical side. There were controversies within the organization. People were afraid to talk.
I did have conversations, but those were private conversations. I have to protect individuals.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you.
Mr. Eglinski, Minister Guilbeault and his Parks Canada officials told the Jasper wildfire investigation that everything that could have been done to protect Jasper was done. Is this statement true?
Retired Member of Parliament, As an Individual
I do not believe so. There was a lot more that could have been done. Part of it came out in evidence today—proper culling of trees around the community, further fire barriers and I think a heavier aspect on sprinkling in the area.
Let's face it. If you look at the news releases that came out, the fire started on July 22. Firefighting resources were in place on the July 27. I've always found Parks Canada to be more reactive when it comes to their firefighting versus the forestry sector of Alberta. The forestry sector, if it's an extreme weather area, will bring their resources. They'll pay the resources to sit there and stand by so that when that fire starts, or that lightning strikes, those people are there—now. That is the difference between the two different forms of government.
I do not believe they did an adequate job.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
It must be pretty frustrating. You were working at this even when you were a sitting MP, trying to get the attention of this government to do something and to act. You observed that they weren't doing prescribed burns. We've had several testimonies. We had people on the landscape. We had foresters. We had indigenous knowledge. All were sitting on the landscape.
I don't know. It makes my blood boil when things like that happen on my landscape, so I can't imagine what you went through.
Retired Member of Parliament, As an Individual
You are absolutely correct. I was passing on the message of the residents of Jasper, the employees of Jasper park, the industry in my area and the communities. Hinton was as terrified as Jasper was. They're just up the road. Edson, where I live, is just a little further down the road. Everybody was afraid. We all saw that tinderbox there. We all saw the dead pine trees. We knew that something was going to happen, as I mentioned earlier.
The people there were concerned. I had to bring it forward. That was my job, to bring their concerns forward, and I believe I did that job.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you.
Do you believe the Liberal government was negligent in protecting Jasper?
Retired Member of Parliament, As an Individual
I believe Parks Canada could have done more. We can't control who starts the fire. We know 99% of the time it's lightning, and it happens. Could more have been done? I believe more could have been done.
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Despite calls from witnesses, despite calls from people who have emailed all of us—because I think we've all received these emails—to turn down the political rhetoric on this issue, it's really disappointing to see that this is continuing at this level.
Unfortunately, I feel as though I need to ask Mr. Eglinski if he'd care to correct the record. Back in your time as a member of Parliament, and perhaps just prior to it, Stephen Harper's deficit reduction action plan took $30 million out of Parks Canada, which affected over 1,600 employees. The result of those Conservative government cuts was that in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014, there was no mechanical thinning conducted in Jasper National Park, and there were no prescribed burns.
Are you aware of that?
Retired Member of Parliament, As an Individual
No, I'm not aware of that, but I would like to clarify one thing that you said.
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
I have other questions, sir.
The result of those Conservative government cuts was that there was no forest management in Jasper during that time. Then, the Liberal government was elected in 2015, and a couple of months later, in 2016, you urged the government to develop a strategy for mountain pine beetle. Is that correct?
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Are you aware of the fact that, in 2016, a forest management strategy for mountain pine beetle was developed and implemented?
Retired Member of Parliament, As an Individual
I believe one was started, yes.
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
When you said that nothing happened after your calls for action, four months into the tenure of the Liberal government—
Retired Member of Parliament, As an Individual
Nothing happened [Inaudible—Editor].
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Do you agree that in 2016 a forest management strategy for mountain pine beetle was developed around the same time that you were calling for it?
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Thank you for clarifying that.
Did you also know that, in 2016, our government provided over $42 million to Parks Canada in new funding, and that since then, our government has invested over $800 million in initiatives related to improving wildfire management?
Retired Member of Parliament, As an Individual
I wasn't aware of those numbers, sir.
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
These are all incremental investments because of the Harper years deficit reduction action plan absolutely gutting these environmental measures. That's all I have to say about that, and I appreciate your willingness to clarify the record.
Ms. Cardinal Christianson, I'm really glad you could be here with us virtually. I'm a huge fan of the guardians and of the Indigenous Leadership Initiative. I should declare that I'm friends with Valérie Courtois. We've been up north together.
I just went over to the Lands Need Guardians website, and I'm not trying to brag, but there's a picture of us together in front of that great big house that was erected on Parliament Hill a couple of years ago. It was a really moving event for me.
Our government has been really proud to collaborate with the indigenous guardians and the Indigenous Leadership Initiative. I know that our government has an indigenous fire stewardship program with Parks Canada. How can we continue to move this forward? How can we continue to maximize all of the cultural knowledge and wisdom that first nations and other indigenous peoples have in Canada to prevent these types of disasters, or to mitigate them, I should say?
Policy Analyst, Indigenous Leadership Initiative
Thanks for the question.
One thing that we see because of colonization, which Dane kind of mentioned, is that there's been a massive.... It's not a loss of indigenous knowledge because we didn't drop it; it was ripped from us. We really need to accelerate capacity in our communities again, especially around fire. We'd really like to see more investment in that area, actual action on the ground, in terms of training indigenous people in fire.
Another issue that we're seeing is the long-term, sustained funding. We have had investment in guardian programs, which has been great, but it's three- to five-year funding. Communities continually have to reapply. That's one thing that's been an issue in trying to get these things instated. When we look at our colleagues in Australia, lots of them have a much longer-term funding basis that they can draw from to keep their programs running.
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Thanks. That's a really good recommendation. It's something that we can bring to Parks Canada as a recommendation.
I know there are a lot of indigenous employees and workers with Parks Canada, but I also would like to see that the guardians initiative and the Indigenous Leadership Initiative have more than just a seat at the table and that they have a more long-term goal.
Thank you very much. Thanks for being here.
Ms. Gartner, I have an article here from the Jasper Local.
First, I admire your work with Protect Our Winters, and I thank you for your climate action advocacy.
The article from the Jasper Local was so closely tied to what you were recommending with respect to the misinformation, the toxic politics that have entered into this committee meeting. Have you read the article in question from the Jasper Local? Do you have any insight or perspective from it? Would you like to add to it at all?
