Evidence of meeting #43 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was right.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I call the meeting to order.
Welcome to the meeting I guess we've all been waiting for, which is clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-5.
I'm told all the sound checks have been done and been done successfully.
1:05 p.m.
Green
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We have with us, from the Department of Health, Greg Carreau, director general, safe environments directorate.
From the Department of the Environment, we have Mr. John Moffet, who we know very well and has been very useful to this committee on a number of subjects. He's the assistant deputy minister, environmental protection branch.
We have also have Laura Farquharson, director general, legislative and regulatory affairs, environmental protection branch, and Jacqueline Gonçalves, director general, science and risk assessment, science and technology branch.
To all those representing departments today, welcome back to the committee.
We'll get the ball rolling.
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Before we begin the clause‑by‑clause consideration of the bill, there are a number of irregularities, if I may say so, or items that should be clarified by the legislative clerk who is with us. It has to do with the way some of the provisions of the Bill S‑5 are written.
I will give you a very specific example. On pages 2 and 3—
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
You are referring to pages 2 and 3 of the bill, is that right?
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Yes, I'm referring to pages 2 and 3 of the French version of Bill S‑5. It's at the very bottom of the page.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
That's it.
In the English version of the bill, after paragraph (a), there are subparagraphs (i), (ii) and (iii) that are really quite distinct. In the French version, all the text is compressed into one paragraph, which makes it harder to read.
Is that something we should correct?
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Give us a moment to check this out, please.
By the way, I'll warn you: We're going to take our time, because clause‑by‑clause consideration is complicated.
Apparently, this arrangement is normal. It should be understood that this is not an exact translation. According to the instructions given, one law clerk drafts the English version, but another law clerk drafts the French version. Apparently, the models used for the languages are not identical. I'm told that this is not a mistake.
1:05 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
If I understand correctly, there are no consequences.
In some places, on pages 4 and 5, for example, both versions present subparagraphs in the same way. However, in other places in the bill, one version uses subparagraphs (a), (b) and (c), for example, but it's not quite the same in the other version.
I'd like to know if there are any consequences to this.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
It's true, it seems contradictory.
I'm told that I should ask the officials. They may be able to explain why the two versions diverge.
Does anyone want to answer the question now?
Can any of the officials speak to the fact that on page 2, in subclause 3(1), we have paragraph 3(1)(a) in both English and in French, but in English we then have subparagraphs 3(1)(a)(i) and 3(1)(a)(ii) and so on, but that is not reflected in the French.
Is that normal? Does anyone want to...? Our legislative clerk—
1:05 p.m.
John Moffet Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
I think Laura Farquharson may be able to respond to that.
December 9th, 2022 / 1:05 p.m.
Laura Farquharson Director General, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Yes. I'm just trying to look quickly at what you're looking at. I do believe it's is a drafting custom that it's written one way in English and one way in French. It's just different—
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
As Madame Pauzé points out, when you go to page 4 and paragraph 5.1(1)(d), they are identical in their formatting.
1:10 p.m.
Director General, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Okay, I can't answer that right on the spot.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
That's fine.
Is there a way that, after this meeting, we can verify if this is an error?
1:10 p.m.
Michael MacPherson Legislative Clerk
Yes, of course, but I think you just have to take it—
1:10 p.m.
Legislative Clerk
—that the justice department drafted this properly. It went through the Senate, and this is the form. As I said—
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Yes, it got through the Senate. The Senate saw it before and didn't pick up on this. Apparently we just have to trust the justice department on this—
