Environment Committee on March 12th, 2026

[Patrick Bonin, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Minister, shouldn't you be ashamed of your government?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Angelo Iacono]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Bonin.

Mr. Bexte, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Welcome, Minister, for this wonderful little exchange. I have to rebut a couple of the things that were said in your opening remarks and in other testimony.

I don't think industry is asking for the industrial carbon tax writ large; it's more a case of the sword of Damocles hanging over their head as the least bad option.

Related to cost-benefit analysis or the notion of it, related to your spend, you just described increased spending in Environment Canada. Similar to Agriculture Canada, has your department contributed to any budget cost-saving efforts in this notion that the government wants to reduce spending by 15%?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

The parts about expenditure review are in the main estimates. I believe I'll be coming back to talk with you about that shortly, because this is a place I come to frequently. I'm always happy to be back—

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

That's good, and I appreciate that, but it's the same answer that I've had lots of times—

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

—but as you are aware, the expenditure reviews apply across all departments.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

At Environment Canada, have you contributed anything, meaningfully, to that 15%?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

The main estimates have been released. You can see the numbers. You've used a subjective number, and you want to say “meaningful”. Look at the main estimates. We'll be back to talk about those.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

What I'm getting at is that there seems to be a disconnect among different departments and not an equal distribution of cost savings across the departments. Agriculture Canada has closed research centres that have made meaningful contributions to farming practices and environmental impacts, as you say, and now these capacities might be lost to Canadian farmers.

I'm trying to understand the context of that and if there's balance and justification to closing these centres.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I can't comment on Agriculture Canada. I'm sure you can—

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

What is your contribution to it? What is your department's contribution to it?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

—speak to Minister MacDonald about all of that.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Has your department not contributed to that effort?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I said that our department did contribute to the expenditure review and that all of the details are in the main estimates, which have been released and which I believe I'll be back to talk about.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I have one other rebuttal.

You made a statement that our potential customers look for reduced carbon load products, but I think today Europe really wouldn't care if their options are Russia or nothing from the Strait of Hormuz.

Canadian Natural Resources Limited recently paused its $8.25-billion Jackpine project, quoting uncertainty around federal carbon pricing and methane rules. Do you acknowledge that regulatory uncertainty is directly delaying projects that would strengthen our economy, or is the president of CNRL misinformed when he says the government's carbon pricing policies have created an “economic burden for long-term growth investments”?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

The first thing I would say is that we've been very clear about the industrial carbon price and needing to enhance it. If there's anybody adding uncertainty about it, it would be the Conservatives, who are fighting it every day.

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I would beg to disagree, Minister. We're just here pointing out hypocrisy.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

You're not fighting the industrial carbon price. That's a fascinating change for me.

I would also say that if we are going to talk about the industrial carbon price and about the work we're doing to enhance it, in fact, CNRL actually came in and said they—

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Excuse me, Minister. I'm asking about uncertainty in projects going forward that are in the national interest and policies that are impeding those from going forward.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

What I'm saying is that the head of CNRL came out and said that he was actually fairly hopeful about the MOU—

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I understand that, but notwithstanding that federal policy, he's clearly stated that it is impeding this project.

There was no answer there.

It goes beyond that, in that CNRL is also a major—

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I could provide more information. Jackpine actually does well under the industrial carbon tax—

[David Bexte, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Excuse me. It's my time, Minister.

Across the energy sector, the sentiment is not uncommon. It's quite common, and it even impacts the Pathways Plus project, which is also delayed because of uncertainty.

What needs to change to regain the confidence of investors?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Here's the thing. I would say that we are introducing certainty by being very clear about what we're doing with the industrial carbon price.

We are working well with the Premier of Alberta in conversations and negotiations that we're having. We have just recently talked about the co-operation agreement that's out for consultation, which is actually an example of how we—