Evidence of meeting #17 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
I said I didn't think any sitting politicians got money from Airbus. I can't quite remember how you asked me or what you asked me.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
It was actually Ms. Lavallée who asked the question.
Do you think any sitting politicians at the time got any money from Bear Head?
As an Individual
The people who received the money, to my knowledge, were the people I've mentioned. The only person outside that group, if you're talking about Canadians, was Gayle Christie, who was a member of the board of Air Canada. Mr. Schreiber's records show a $60,000 amount for her. I didn't ask her, but Harvey Cashore asked her, and she thought it was for a fundraiser.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Ms. Cameron, this committee is charged with examining whether or not there was any wrongdoing by any public officials, related to Airbus, related to Bear Head. We've heard from witnesses for the last three weeks, and so far not a single one of them has provided any new evidence of wrongdoing by any public official.
We know that the RCMP investigated this matter for eight years and determined that no public official had done anything wrong. I'm now asking you if you have any evidence that any public official was involved in any wrongdoing with respect to Bear Head or Airbus.
As an Individual
Mr. Hiebert, I have to tell you I'm a journalist. I am not a judge; I'm not a prosecutor; I'm not a lawyer. I record what I know, and what I know is in that book. That's all I can say to you.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
You're telling me that you have no evidence to offer this committee of any wrongdoing, no information that wasn't available to the RCMP at the time.
As an Individual
Mr. Hiebert, no, that's not what I'm telling you. I think that this book is--
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
I'm not interested in buying your book, Ms. Cameron.
As an Individual
You can't buy it, anyway, Mr. Hiebert. It was not a successful book, and I think it was remaindered years ago. This is not a plug for my book. I'm telling you that this is a very complete record up to 2001 of Mr. Schreiber's activities.
The Last Amigo refers to Mr. Schreiber; it doesn't refer to Mr. Mulroney. The word “amigo” means he was one of Franz Josef Strauss' amigos.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
An individual you said you've only met once outside of a courtroom.
As an Individual
Yes, but you must remember I worked on the book with Harvey Cashore, who has interviewed Mr. Schreiber extensively.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Just to summarize, whether it's in your book or based on your own research, do you have any evidence of any wrongdoing by any public official?
As an Individual
It isn't a yes or no question, Mr. Hiebert. It is an issue of what my job is. My job is not to be a judge, a juror, or a lawyer. I'm a reporter. I'm telling you what I found.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
I'm not asking you to judge anybody. I'm asking you to tell us if you have evidence of any wrongdoing.
As an Individual
I think that my work speaks for itself. I think it's a comprehensive discussion of where the money went, who got it, how much they made. It's all there.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
I'll take that as a no.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
Mr. Chairman, I want to tell Ms. Cameron that not everybody shares the rather skeptical viewpoint that my Conservative Party colleague just expressed on the value of her work. In his recent report, David Johnston tells us that the entire question of the facts surrounding the Airbus affair is well-tilled ground. That's his expression.
To prove that the facts concerning the Airbus affair are public knowledge and to explain why he will exclude them from the mandate of an eventual commission of inquiry, he cites Stevie Cameron's books. So the authority chosen by the Conservatives to establish the so-called frame of reference of an eventual commission of inquiry cites, in footnote 4, the two books by Ms. Cameron and the two books by William Kaplan as evidence that he has for saying that it is unnecessary to examine the Airbus affair. That's quite surprising, and I wanted to share that information with my colleague Mr. Hiebert, who clearly has not yet had the opportunity to read Mr. Johnston's report.
Mr. Chairman, I'm putting my question to Ms. Cameron. Is there anything in those books that, in her view, can logically lead to the conclusion that we no longer need to investigate the Airbus-Mulroney-Schreiber affair?
NDP
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
That is our opinion as well, Mr. Chairman.
She explained to us earlier that she had worked with Rod Macdonell, a journalist I had the pleasure to meet who, like Ms. Cameron, is considered an outstanding investigative reporter. I was surprised to learn—because I didn't know it before coming here today—that the notes she filed with the committee—which will no doubt be translated before they're distributed—contain not only her own notes of her conversations with François Martin, but also Mr. Macdonell's notes and description. That reassures me a great deal because, contrary to what our witness might think, some individuals attacked her work very recently following Mr. Martin's appearance before this committee exactly one week ago.
In closing, Mr. Chairman, I want to say that Ms. Cameron is showing rare courage and exemplary honesty. The few journalists whom I've heard express at times vehement criticisms of her work were people who didn't do the essential part of what we've been trying to do from the outset, that is to say to hear both sides and to come to the best possible decision based on the evidence we have.
That is what she has tried to do as a journalist, and I think it is important to thank her for what she has done. All we can try to do as a group is to be the first line of defence of our parliamentary institutions.
Thank you, Ms. Cameron.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I would simply add that Ms. Cameron is being modest when she says that The Last Amigo might be in the bargain bins. On the Take, a book that I found very useful, is actually the most successful political book in Canadian history. It sold 200,000 copies in the first two years and whetted the appetite of a great many Canadians to investigate this scandal further. We on this side of the committee table are not satisfied with Mr. Johnston's findings that we don't need to investigate further, an opinion that perhaps you share, Mr. Hiebert.
I would like to use the time we have left to ask you a little more about your problems with the Mounties. What is the status of the complaint that you filed in 2005?
As an Individual
I think that complaint is dead, and I don't think I have any energy left to go after them again. We all have heard a great deal about the public complaints commission. I realize that, for my part, anyway, everything I heard is borne out by what happened to me.
