Evidence of meeting #18 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was schreiber.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Did you ever follow it through? Your recommended language went into a letter that Karlheinz Schreiber wrote. He sent that letter to Brian Mulroney, presumably on your recommendation. You were good friends with both parties. Did Mr. Mulroney ever give it to Mr. Harper? Did Mr. Mulroney ever raise the subject with Mr. Harper, as Schreiber expected him to?
3:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I would have been totally amazed if anything like that had happened. When I wrote that....
Let's be clear here. We all know, Mr. Martin, you particularly, you're a very conscientious and dedicated MP. The worst thing, as I see it, for anyone to do is to interfere politically when a matter is before the courts. That letter that Mr. Schreiber sent to Mr. Mulroney, as far as I know, had no quid pro quo. I didn't know exactly when he sent it. I didn't compose it. I think he wrote it after he received my suggested memo. I don't know what was in their minds.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you.
It would be just as wrong to interfere with an RCMP investigation, and given the number of letters you've written to the RCMP complaining about their avenues of investigation, I don't think the same logic holds up.
3:50 p.m.
As an Individual
I don't think the RCMP takes very seriously letters from former politicians that poke fun at them. I don't think that constitutes an interference in their investigation.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Did the RCMP ever investigate you in a formal way, or interview you in the context of their investigation regarding Airbus?
3:50 p.m.
As an Individual
They certainly didn't, but I had a couple of very conscientious officers named, I think, Muir and Henschel, who came to see me here in Halifax a long time ago about anything I might be able to tell them about ACOA or Bear Head. I spent a little time with them. I poked a little fun at them. They seemed to be satisfied with what I had to say. I remember some of the excerpts of the conversation, if you want to hear them, but in the end they left, and I haven't heard from either of them since.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
You started off your remarks, Mr. MacKay, by saying that people were turned off by our committee.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I know you were angry at our chair.
Let me put it to you, Mr. MacKay, that the Canadian people are turned off by people associated with that whole administration and the influence peddling and the kickbacks that we know in fact took place in many of the Public Works contracts. That's what people are actually tired of, Mr. MacKay. A lot of people are actually relieved that there are some good people in this room who are doing their damnedest to try to get to the bottom of it all, and to put rules in place so that Ottawa can't be hijacked by a bunch of pirates like those who took over during that era, ever again, under a new administration.
I can see you are smiling, but believe me, there are a lot of people in Canada, partly due to our study here, who now believe firmly that there was political interference in the Airbus purchase.
Our investigation is not going to stop here. It's going to go to a public inquiry, and it will carry on then. And people like you, I hope, will be called back, and I hope you will show a little bit more respect for the chairman of the public inquiry than you did for the chairman of our ethics committee when that happens.
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I'm sure I probably will. I don't want to personalize it with Mr. Szabo, but he made me very angry.
I'm interested in your polemics and your assertions of all these kickbacks and bribes and terrible conduct by our administration--
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Well, Roch La Salle--do I have to read you the names of your old colleagues who were tried and convicted and dragged away in handcuffs?
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I don't have to remind you, Mr. MacKay. You must have been embarrassed during that whole era. I'm surprised you didn't wear a bag on your head during that whole period of time. I would have, if I were you.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative David Tilson
Mr. MacKay, I'm sorry, Mr. Martin's time is up. We'll have to move on to Mr. Wallace.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you for joining us, Mr. MacKay.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I'm going to give you an opportunity to give some very clear answers. We've been asking the same questions of virtually every witness who has come in front of us just to make sure we have on the record what people's positions are.
The first question I have for you, Mr. MacKay, is do you have any evidence to offer this committee of any wrongdoing by any public official regarding the Bear Head proposal?
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
No, I do not, and I gave the same evidence, or made the same comments, to those two RCMP officers many years ago. I've heard all these innuendoes, and I've listened with great interest to Mr. Martin. I do not personally know of any kickbacks or any misconduct.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you.
The committee's reason for being was to look at Airbus and whether there was any new information regarding that settlement. Mr. MacKay, do you have any evidence to offer this committee of any wrongdoing by any public official regarding the Airbus purchase by Air Canada?
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
No, I do not, sir. I note here that this piece of paper I have about this committee says this is the study of the Mulroney Airbus settlement. I know nothing about that whatsoever, and I know of no evidence surrounding it. I wasn't part of it. I wasn't a minister involved. I wasn't involved with the settlement. I didn't attend any of the court proceedings. I know nothing about it.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you, sir.
Do you have any evidence to offer this committee of any wrongdoing by any public official regarding the consulting agreement between Brian Mulroney and Karlheinz Schreiber?
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
Again, sir, I have no idea of any of the particulars involving this consulting agreement, any more than what I've read in the paper and what I've seen in this committee.
Incidentally, allow me to say, if I sounded a little bit acerbic, I do not denigrate the work of this committee or any member of Parliament. I know how hard you work. All I'm saying is so far, as far as seeing any evidence of wrongdoing goes, to quote an old aphorism, the elephants laboured and brought out a mouse. I haven't seen anything except the ongoing dispute between these two men.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you.
I'll move on to the letter that brought your name forward in Mr. Schreiber's testimony. Your testimony today is that you provided some sentences, some concepts, in an e-mail, but have you actually seen the final draft of that letter that we think was sent to Mr. Mulroney?
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I saw it in a newspaper, as far as I can remember. I didn't see it before that.